JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 Ok, I'm listening to some of those mid-late-1960s Harold Vick RCA sides,and yeah, otoh the aim of the "context" is pretty much at the MOR stations that had room for some light jazz on their playlist (and didn't there used to be a fair # of stations like this across the land?), but what Vick is actually playing is anything but MOR, there's some pretty non-MOR stuff coming out of his horn. So the producer has to be hearing all this and letting it slide, right? And the producer is Brad McCuen who truns up on most (all?) of those indelible Ellingotn sides from the same period, as well, as some Gary Burton RCA sides, as well as the Lockjaw sides, the JJ sides (right?), and who knows what else. So this is a guy who seemed to be hip enough to get stuff out there that played the game both ways, aiming towards the market & still letting the players get their own thing in there too. God knows that's no where near as commonplace (and, I'd have to guess, as easy) as we'd like to think, no? So who was this cat? Is he still alive? Was he just lucky, I mean, was nobody at RCA saying "Hey Brad, tell that Harold Vick guy to stop using all those false fingerings. That shit sounds weird.", or was he really a good judge about balancing all the various elements of market and expression into a single package? Where/When else did he do producers' work besides his stint @ RCA? I mean, the cat really balanced his Ellington output as well, getting the Far East Suite & And His Mother Called Him Bill albums out while at the same time doing a few more "popular" oriented efforts. Balance all the way around, and none of it really sucked. This 1967 Harold Vick thing Watch What Happens has some "cheese" MOR with a female vocal group in the back (but Vick still plays!) as well as a Joe Bonner tune, "Ode To Trane", all on the same album. Herbie Hancock's all over this side too, playing his Herbieosity. Plenty of people make "commercial" records, but very few do it this way! So please, those who know, tell me about this Brad McCuen guy. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 He also produced Bill Dixon's Intents and Purposes! Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 He also produced Bill Dixon's Intents and Purposes! See, even more MOR-meets-real-music! Was he in on Ornette's RCA side too? Quote
carnivore Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 Guys I knew at RCA told me that the reason for all the jazz recorded in the 50s, and to a lesser extent the 60s was - (heh!) nothing to do with a 'cultural mission' on the part of senior management but a need to offset, for tax purposes, the incredible profits from the Elvis Presley catalog. The money only went as far as production though. There was never any intention to market or promote the stuff. A tax loss was what was required. Our silver lining I guess. Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 Not surprising, I guess, but still...so many of those albums seemed to be targeted at getting some airplay, so why would McCuen make those type of records if he knew that there would be no promotion to get that airplay? Is this guy still alive? Anybody know him personally? Quote
carnivore Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 A gig's a gig. If you were Brad, or Shorty Rogers, or Jack Lewis in 1958 and someone said "Here's a nice sum of money to go into the studio with the best players in the world and record state-of-the-art jazz" would you say "only if you guarantee the sum you'll spend on promotion" I don't think so. The minimal promotion the company had planned for the product would not have been spelled out anyway. Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 No, I mean why would he have made the move towards MOR-jazz instead of more "pure" sounds? Or maybe that was what he dug? Quote
jlhoots Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 He also produced Bill Dixon's Intents and Purposes! Never reissued on CD - right???? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 He also produced Bill Dixon's Intents and Purposes! Never reissued on CD - right???? AFAIK. Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 And McCuen was with RCA just in the mid-late '60s, not before, right? Quote
Christiern Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) I knew Brad McCuen and he was a true lover of jazz, a congenial man whose taste in music was well rounded and not as shallow as some of the day's RCA output might indicate. And he was definitely there in 1960, that's when I met him. Edited February 3, 2009 by Christiern Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 I knew Brad McCuen and he was a true lover of jazz, a congenial man whose taste in music was well rounded and not as shallow as some of the day's RCA output might indicate. Well, that's what I mean, even when he produced albums that seemed to be aimed at the MOR jazz market, there was always meat there as well as slick. You could listen to it either way and be well pleased. I respect the hell out of anybody who can do that, because usually it's either/or. Both/and is the road less traveled, probably because it takes, as you suggest, tastes that are more well-rounded than usual from all concerned. Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 Yeah, I guess McCuen was w/RCA in the 50s as well. From http://www.scottymoore.net/richmond.html : Of the May 16th, 1956 performance, Peter Guralnick and Ernst Jorgensen in Elvis Day by Day wrote: RCA field representative Brad McCuen (responsible for east Tennessee, Virginia, and the Carolinas) and country--and--western promotion manager Chick Crumpacker are in the audience to check out some of their acts. Crumpacker remembers being bowled over. "What really got the listeners was his energy and the way he sang the songs. The effect was galvanic." Subsequently Crumpacker makes a point of taking all of Elvis' records back to New York to give to his boss, Steve Sholes, who, unbeknownst to him, is already well aware of the new act. Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 He also produced the Joe Daley Trio record. Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) He also produced the Joe Daley Trio record. My copy says George Avakian & Augie Blume. Do you know differently? And who is Augie Blume? That name sounds familiar... Edited February 3, 2009 by JSngry Quote
Larry Kart Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 He also produced the Joe Daley Trio record. My copy says George Avakian & Augie Blume. Do you know differently? And who is Augie Blume? That name sounds familiar... My mistake; it was Augie Blume. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 August (Augie) Blume is worth knowing about. When I knew him he was working for/with the Jefferson Airplane. A shaggy grayhaired, hippie executive. Quote
Michael Weiss Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) August Blume's 45 minute interview with Coltrane 6/15/58 is available here: http://www.slought.org/content/11161/ Edited February 4, 2009 by Michael Weiss Quote
Stereojack Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 I believe McCuen was later involved (perhaps owned) the Mega label, successful with a few country releases, but also recorded Larry Coryell, Eddie Cleanhead Vinson, etc. I met him once at a convention of the International Association of Jazz Record Collectors in Nashville in the early 80's. At that time he was involved with the country music scene in Nashville. Don't know if Mega was still in existence by that time. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 ARLD for the period 1940-59 gives McCuen only as working for RCA Victor - so that must have been his first employment in the industry (doesn't give dates for individuals). All Music Guide gives a list of credits including many sleeve notes and archive research, as well as record procucer. http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...aifpxqwgldde~T4 He also produced the original cast album of "How to succeed in business without really trying", on the "classical" side of AMG. MG Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 August Blume's 45 minute interview with Coltrane 6/15/58 is available here: http://slought.org/ THAT'S where I've heard the name! Quote
JSngry Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Posted February 3, 2009 I believe McCuen was later involved (perhaps owned) the Mega label, successful with a few country releases, but also recorded Larry Coryell, Eddie Cleanhead Vinson, etc. Yeah, I remember the Coryell & Vinson sides, both recorded live @ Montreux iirc (was there one other?) . For some reason I thought that label was a Flying Dutchman/Bob Thiele offshoot. Obviously not. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted February 3, 2009 Report Posted February 3, 2009 I completely forgot about Mega. It didn't last long. Quote
JSngry Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Posted February 17, 2009 I believe McCuen was later involved (perhaps owned) the Mega label, successful with a few country releases, but also recorded Larry Coryell, Eddie Cleanhead Vinson, etc. Yeah, I remember the Coryell & Vinson sides, both recorded live @ Montreux iirc (was there one other?) . For some reason I thought that label was a Flying Dutchman/Bob Thiele offshoot. Obviously not. Obviously? Hmmmm.... Quote
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