John Coltrane in the Studio 1966

[HWright]

It has been reported in recent years that Alice and Ravi Coltrane have in their possession master tapes and/or copies of many of the Coltrane Impulse era recordings previously listed in discographies as "lost." Some of this material has come out but she has gone on record (I believe) as saying that she intends to stagger its release and so we can't count on seeing much of it any time soon.

One part of this archive that has always fascinating me is the studio recordings from 1966. Although I consider Lewis Porter's book on Trane to be the best to date, I find his coverage of 1965-67 to be somewhat lacking. First of all, he lumps it all into one chapter and while he does provide excellent analysis of some of the 1967 material (no doubt taken from a separate article he wrote on the subject), he glosses over some of the material from that period or just mentions it in passing. He has a chronology in the back of his book which is quite interesting, but, no doubt not wishing to compete with himself (he and a colleague of his whose name I can't recall have published a separate discography), he only says "sessions for Impulse" under each date, which doesn't really help much.

Based on what other books and resources (Thomas, Simpkins, Wild) say, this is what I think I know: after Trane died, (in the 1970's) Alice put out two albums that contained much of what he recorded in the studio during 1966. These albums are:

(1) "Cosmic Music" (CRC AU 4950): contains "Manifestation," "Reverend King" and two tracks by Alice without Trane: "Lord Help Me to Be" and "The Sun."

(2) "Infinity" (IMP A9225): contains "Joy," "Peace on Earth," "Leo" and "Living Space."

These two albums are considered very controversial because Alice made significant overdubs to the material. Subsquently, undubbed versions of some (all?) of the tracks did come out on later LPs, but to the best of my knowledge the only track that has come out on CD in the USA is "Living Space."

Once when I was in London I saw a Japanese version of "Cosmic Music," but since I assumed it contained the overdubbs (and was costly), I balked. If I saw it again I might buy it, just out of curiosity.

In addition, there were other "lost" sessions from 1966 that have never been released in any form. David Wild says they included tracks such as "Darkness," "Lead Us On," and "Call" which have never been heard before, in either live or studio versions.

While I always used to wonder why Alice and Impulse didn't put out a CD with the "Cosmic Music"/"Infinity" material undubbed, now it seems to me that they are holding it back so they can put it out along with the "lost" material and so we won't hear any of Trane's 1966 studio material until it all comes out. When that will be, I don't know.

Anyone have any thoughts about this or know anything more about it?

Edited November 3, 2003 by HWright

[Simon Weil]

(1) "Cosmic Music" (CRC AU 4950): contains "Manifestation," "Reverend King" and two tracks by Alice without Trane: "Lord Help Me to Be" and "The Sun."

(2) "Infinity" (IMP A9225): contains "Joy," "Peace on Earth," "Leo" and "Living Space."

These two albums are considered very controversial because Alice made significant overdubs to the material. Subsquently, undubbed versions of some (all?) of the tracks did come out on later LPs, but to the best of my knowledge the only track that has come out on CD in the USA is "Living Space."

Once when I was in London I saw a Japanese version of "Cosmic Music," but since I assumed it contained the overdubbs (and was costly), I balked. If I saw it again I might buy it, just out of curiosity.

I have both Cosmic Music (MVJC-19141) and Infinity (MVJC-19159). Infinity is the one with overdubbed strings. I found it gloopy and have only listened to it once. Cosmic Music isn't dubbed. It's a good record, although not in the same league as (say) Meditations. The tracks without Coltrane are not negligible.

I got mine from a Japanese dealer through Gemm for ca $20.

Simon Weil

[7/4]

I have both Cosmic Music (MVJC-19141) and Infinity (MVJC-19159). Infinity is the one with overdubbed strings. I found it gloopy and have only listened to it once. Cosmic Music isn't dubbed. It's a good record, although not in the same league as (say) Meditations. The tracks without Coltrane are not negligible.

I got mine from a Japanese dealer through Gemm for ca $20.

Simon Weil

I found Infinity used for about $12, about 11 years ago and I like it. But I am a fan of Alice Coltrane and I like her string arrangements.

Anybody familiar with the original mix of Illuminations? Alice with a decent sounding Santana, Dave Holland, Jack DeJohnette and others. A real hot date.

[mikeweil]

Manifestation and Reverend King are the only Coltrane not yet reissued in the US. Now only why???

[Chuck Nessa]

Referring to the David Wild website to refresh my memory. Trane was ill in the latter part of '66 which explains the lack of recordings.

While working at the Jazz Record Mart, a customer asked to hear ASCENSION and I put it on the turntable. I noticed it was a different take than the one I knew. I grabbed the record and ran to the Down Beat office to see Don DeMichael. Don was the editor and a good friend. He'd heard nothing of the two takes and said "Lets call John". He placed the call, got the news Coltrane was in the hospital, and placed a call to JC there. We were both on the phone and mentioned the discovery. Coltrane said the change was at his request - he thought the others played better on the "new" take. I said I thought his solo was better on the other one and he said that didn't matter. After talking to Coltrane, DeMichael called Leroi Jones and told him of my discovery. Jones (then a regular DN columnist) asked for an exclusive, and he subsequently produced a story.

[Chuck Nessa]

Well, this is off topic but Thurs and Fri I am in the studio putting this together. It will be out around Feb.

[Simon Weil]

I have both Cosmic Music (MVJC-19141) and Infinity (MVJC-19159). Infinity is the one with overdubbed strings. I found it gloopy and have only listened to it once. Cosmic Music isn't dubbed. It's a good record, although not in the same league as (say) Meditations. The tracks without Coltrane are not negligible.

I got mine from a Japanese dealer through Gemm for ca $20.

Simon Weil

I found Infinity used for about $12, about 11 years ago and I like it. But I am a fan of Alice Coltrane and I like her string arrangements.

I've got Journey into Satchi(etc etc) and like it very much. But I do think she has a tendency to gloop. Going Home is heading that way, but I still like it. Basically it's (as I read it) her conception of heavy spiritual beauty. I don't think the gloop resides in her string arrangments, but is part of her aesthetic.

But one person's gloop is another's spiritual ecstacy.

Simon Weil

[ghost of miles]

Although I consider Lewis Porter's book on Trane to be the best to date, I find his coverage of 1965-67 to be somewhat lacking. First of all, he lumps it all into one chapter and while he does provide excellent analysis of some of the 1967 material (no doubt taken from a separate article he wrote on the subject), he glosses over some of the material from that period or just mentions it in passing.

Agree w/you on that. I think he gives 1965--a huge year in the Coltrane canon--all of 4 pages. And the 1961 VV sessions w/Dolphy hardly get mentioned at all. Curious omissions in an otherwise fairly solid book.

[Simon Weil]

Although I consider Lewis Porter's book on Trane to be the best to date, I find his coverage of 1965-67 to be somewhat lacking. First of all, he lumps it all into one chapter and while he does provide excellent analysis of some of the 1967 material (no doubt taken from a separate article he wrote on the subject), he glosses over some of the material from that period or just mentions it in passing.

Agree w/you on that. I think he gives 1965--a huge year in the Coltrane canon--all of 4 pages. And the 1961 VV sessions w/Dolphy hardly get mentioned at all. Curious omissions in an otherwise fairly solid book.

Porter's book is a lot better than "fairly solid" IMHO. Loads of good stuff in there. It

is soundly written and his style fits your description, but in terms of Coltrane scholarship, it's a Giant Step (Sorry, couldn't resist).

It's very hard to write about Coltrane's 65-67 era, just as it is to write about Ayler. Just not being able to tie things down musically (because they went outside standard musicological zones) leaves you up in the air.

In one respect, "fairly solid" is a good description of Porter, in that he lacks (IMHO) a certain level of imagination. This allows him to avoid "filling in the gaps" with kind of unabased emotional response - which provides the soundless of the book, but it also means that certain sorts of poetic insight are denied him.

Maybe that's what the 65-67 period requires, poetic insight.

Simon Weil

Edited November 4, 2003 by Simon Weil

[HWright]

Just to clarify what I said about Porter's chapter on 1965-67, I agree that the music itself is hard to analyze or talk about either through musicology or poetics, and Porter is a brave and adventerous researcher for having approached that period at all, but as a person who also enjoys a historical/discographical approach (best example of it is Jack Chambers' "Milestones" in my opinion, even if the book as a whole is not perfect in other respects), I like to hear the basic facts, at least as they are known. While it is true, as I said, that all the facts are not necessarily currently known about Trane's work in the studio during 1966-67 (how many times?, what compositions were recorded?, how many are lost?, how many are with the Coltrane family?, etc), it seems to me that Porter could have at least summarized what is known about Trane's recording activities during 1965-67 based on the discography he helped put out and the tracks that have been released in one form or another. It makes for an interesting story, when you think about it...Trane was recording seemingly non-stop in 1965 and then in 1966 he slowed down...Was he sick most of the time? Was he consolidating what he had learned in the previous year? Was he not happy with the results?

On a related note, I found it odd that in his essay in the booklet of the double-disc version of "A Love Supreme," John's son Ravi lists the composition "After the Crescent" as coming from its original Lp release "To the Beat of a Different Drummer" without naming that Lp's current CD incarnation "Dear Old Stockholm." That one had me stratching my head for a while until I did some cross referencing of 1965 sessions on David Wild's site.

Edited November 10, 2003 by HWright

[rockefeller center]

You might want to discuss this on the COLTRANE-L list also (if you haven't already)

http://www.lsoft.com/SCRIPTS/WL.EXE?SL1=CO...LISTSERV.UH.EDU

http://listserv.uh.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=c...=coltrane-l&A=1

Edited November 10, 2003 by rockefeller center