Gonna see Maria Schneider live!

[EKE BBB]

Next wednesday, November 5, as one of most outstanding events in Emociona!!!Jazz, the fall Jazz Festival in Madrid. This Festival brings together some previous individual (and smaller) jazz festivals (CMU San Juan Evangelista, Festival de Jazz de Ciudad Lineal...).

She´ll be conducting the Danish Radio Orchestra.

I have her CD "Allegresse" and I find her orchestra one of the most interesting and innovative, nowadays. His sound is full of beautiful nuances and her pallette has a lot of tonalities.

Any comments on her?

Just can´t wait to see this concert!!!

PS: I will post my impressions... FWIW

[EKE BBB]

Here´s a link to the Emociona!!!Jazz Festival

[EKE BBB]

As far as I know, these are her only three albums:

Evanescence (Enja 8048, 1992)

Coming about (Enja 9069, 1995)

and

Allegresse (Enja 9393, 2000) reissued as Enja Justin Time 3306, 2003.

Any comments?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Aha - but what about the wine CD? "Live at the Jazz Standard: Days of Wine and Roses" originally sold with a case of "Maria Schneider" wine bottling (apparently it's a Riesling, specifically a Kabinett Trocken or sometimes a Halbtrocken). Now occasionally seen on ebay and other such places, but never sold in stores. It's Enja ENJ-9444-2, recorded January 2000.

Maria Schneider is one of the greatest writers today.

Mike

[king ubu]

I've seen her live (with the band) probably in 2001. A great show!

Rich Perry, Scott Robinson,... you get several good solosists/instrumentalists, and then you get the lavish yet very controlled and nuanced sound of her beautiful orchestrations of her (or other band members', I think) compositions.

I got her second CD (Coming About), and it is quite similar in style to the concert I heard (it was the 30 year Enja Winckelmann jubilee tour, I saw Dhafer Yousef the next day, too. The first Enja release, by the way, was a Mal Waldron record, if I remember that right.)

Hope you'll hear a great concert, EKE!

Edit: just reread your post; you will be hearing the same show she did yesterday in Zurich (I missed it as I am currently in the accompanying orchestra of a theatre staging Brecht/Weill's Threepenny-Opera, and did miss the whole - though terribly bad programmed - Zurich jazz festival which took place last week).

ubu

Edited November 3, 2003 by king ubu

[jazzbo]

The live cd sold by the winery is very nice! All her work is excellent in my opinion. You're going to really enjoy that show!

[A Lark Ascending]

Given how often we get a new Michael Brecker or Joe Lovano CD I thing Maria Schneider is criminally under recorded. I have her 3 generally released CDs and love them all. Beautiful, original arrangements.

I love jazz 'orchestra' - without the big band mannerisms or too much of the acid rock histrionics. For this Schneider fits perfectly. Very much an inheritor and developer of Gil Evans' ways. Along with people like Kenny Wheeler, Mike Gibbs, and Colin Towns she really knows how to explore the breadth of palette available to a jazz based orchestra.

Someone I'd travel a fair way to see in a live setting (she did some work in Scotland a while back...a bit further than a fair way, I'm afraid.)

[EKE BBB]

I won´t say I was disappointed by the concert, but I was really caught unawares... just at the beginning. I attended the concert expecting to hear Maria Schneider arrangements, orchestation, full of nuances and subtleties... within the context of her own compositions (could we call this "contemporary orchestral jazz"???). And two surprises I receive (I hadn´t heard these were coming):

-first of all, brazilian composer, pianist, singer and guitarist??? Ivan Lins. I think he ruled the roost: 9 out of the 10 songs were his compositions (if my memory serves me right); he sang in all of them; he played an electric piano which, IMO didn´t melt properly with the rest of the orchestra; even he was the one who presented each and every song, in an "improveable" Spanish. Not that I didn´t like his singing, it was OK, but it didn´t get me. His compositions were all latin tingled songs: some near bossa nova, some near samba (really an ancestry of samba, "lundu"???), some other brazilian rhythms.

-the other GREAT surprise was all positive: the venerable granddad THOOTS THIELEMANS. I was really shocked by what he did with his harmonica. He responded (imitating, innovating and improvising) to all the rest of the instruments in an incredible way. I have some of his records, but never expected this wonderful playing live.

And the Danish Radio Orchestra? Big sized. 20 members, appart from Maria/Ivan/Toots: 5 trumpets/fluggelhorns; 4 trombones (one of them bass trombone); one tuba; 5 reeds (all kind of saxes and flutes); bass (both accoustic and electric); accoustic piano; drums; percussion (conga and every kind of brazilian percussive instruments); guitar. Funny to hear a Danish Orchestra playing only latin music.

Little room for soloing (except for Toots): a few bars for one of the trumpets, for a couple of trombones, for a tenor sax and for a flute.... and a rocky guitar solo by a guy very similar (his appearance, not his playing ) to René Thomas.

Maria´s on stage presence was clearly overshadowed by the other two guys. She looked shy and very respectful for Toots and admirative for both Toots and Ivan Lins.

[EKE BBB]

BTW: I bought "Coming about" and I´m diggin´ it! Previously, I only had "Allegresse".

[DrJ]

I like and appreciate Schneider, very innovative stuff, you can pick her out of the crowd for sure. What she pulls off - creating such an ethereal sound from such a large ensemble - is truly amazing. And she is a wonderful writer.

That said, I don't find myself reaching for her music that often, and that started me thinking about why. While her music is 1000 miles away from "light" jazz or "new age" - in terms of the sophistication of her writing and the arrangements and the quality of the musical ideas - nonetheless sometimes I find the PERFORMANCES of her music lack the visceral impact I seem to naturally gravitate towards in my favorite music. Sometimes it's all just too TOO and overly polite, particularly at the moments where a good (not necessarily loud or unsubtle) jab in the ribs might be just the tonic (and oh so WELCOME). Maybe the best way to say it is: easy to admire, not so easy to love and truly enjoy for me. In that sense I find her work nothing like the best of Gil Evans' where there's that puckishness that leavened and enlivened. Perhaps she simply hasn't found the ideal players to interpret her compositions?

[Free For All]

I think it is the nature of Maria's writing that is ultimately responsible for what you perceive as a lacking performance, DrJ. I'm not saying it's a flaw, just a different concept.

Let me preface my comments by saying that Maria is a friend of mine, as are many of the players she regularly uses. I have nothing but praise for these musicians, and I really enjoy Maria's writing.

I think Maria's approach to the big band (OK, "jazz orchestra") is very fresh and different which is why she's been getting so much attention. Of course, being an attractive female in a male-dominated medium helps, but in the end it's the quality of the music that's foremost, IMHO.

I think there is a tension created in Maria's music that comes from a feeling of "holding back"- there are few explosive moments in her compositions (in the more typical big band sense), and they are few and far between. There is also not much out-and-out swing. I'm aware that this departure from the "norm" is precisely what attracts many to her music. I know that most of the players who are regulars are very supportive of her; OTOH, I have also heard many voice frustration with the lack of "high energy" let-it-all-out moments, which often leave them feeling unsatisfied.

Maria used to be married to John Fedchock- they had a big band together for a while. If you've heard any of John's big band recordings, you know that he writes in a very contrasting style to Maria- he comes more out of the traditional big band styles of writers like Thad. Many of the players from that band still play gigs with both John and Maria's current groups. It was interesting to hear John's and Maria's charts back to back- the styles were so contrary that the band acquired a schizophrenic quality. The same players would roar on John's stuff and then turn around and nail Maria's more introspective music, but they were playing their asses off all the time (in the appropriate style) regardless of whose music was being played.

You would have thought that this contrast would have made for interesting sets, but the end result was that the band was lacking in a definable identity. This concept of multiple writers worked for Woody's band, Buddy's, Maynard's etc. but it didn't work here. Just as it probably wouldn't have worked for someone like Toshiko Akiyoshi or Bill Holman, to name a couple.

I know both John and Maria are very meticulous leaders and communicate their desires to their players very articulately. I think what you hear on Maria's recordings is exactly what she wants you to hear. If the players weren't making it, she'd have made changes, which she has done over the years. She knows what she wants!

[A Lark Ascending]

I play Schneider's CDs frequently and have the opposite response to Dr J. I really like the way she doesn't feel compelled to do the jab in the ribs every now and then. She reminds me of Kenny Wheeler in this respect.

There's nothing lacking there. It's just a different view of the musical world. And if you're coming from that direction it makes perfect sense.

By contrast I find a great deal of contemporary 'big band' jazz hard to listen to. Nothing wrong with the music. Just different ears.

[DrJ]

I think that's it exactly Bev, different ears. To clarify a couple of points, it's not that I find anything "lacking" in Schneider's music, it's pretty darn near perfect based on her unique conception, but it's not the type of thing I enjoy often (great for a change of pace though), just a personal thing. I also enjoy a lot of the musicians she works with - Rick Margitza for example, who's nigh on perfect for her music given that I think he espouses a very similar esthetic (lack of showy histrionic playing and a clear desire to break out of the "tenor and rhythm" mold and do something new, all particularly admirable in the current field of youngish tenor players).

Finally, I don't mean that the missing "jab in the ribs" has to be a loud crescendo or bleating high-end trumpets or that sort of thing, and it certainly doesn't have to "swing" conventionally in the Basie-school sense. I have pretty big ears and get tired of cookie cutter hard bop stuff. It's just that I sometimes find a LACK of tension in Schneider's music because it's so darn logical and beautiful. I'm not generally surprised by anything I hear as a result. Unless it's absolutely perfectly executed, with just the right improvisatory fire, her music can sound a little bland then, even as one appreciates the detail and musicianship and beauty.

Again, all this is my personal take, and I can see how others would feel quite differently. It's actually a very small criticism, and suggests (positively I think) that this still-evolving artist may have her very greatest work ahead of her (and I'll be following the development with great interest).

Edited November 11, 2003 by DrJ

[A Lark Ascending]

I understand exactly what you're saying, DrJ. There's something missing for you, something that doesn't completely satisfy.

We all come to music expecting certain things - sometimes consciously, more frequently sunconsciously, I suspect. You can try to be as open eared as possible and still your prior experience or general preferences will keep you 'outside' some pieces of music or the work of some musicians.

I'm like that with Joe Lovano. I have no problem in recognising his talent, his range and willingness to explore and take chances. Yet in the end he doesn't touch me. I'm left feeling hungry. (and like you I'll keep listening, hoping to hear that something that might crack him open!).

For the same reason I don't 'get' Verdi or Bruce Springsteen! Again, I have no difficulty appreciating that they are genuine talents in their own fields who mean a great deal to millions of others. But they don't connect to me.

I just put it down to something missing in my experience or expectation. And don't worry too much. There's more than enough music I do like to keep me going.

***********

You may well be right about Schneider having her best yet to come. Three discs (and one freebie with a bottle of wine!) is a pretty slim catalogue. A pity she has not had the chance to record more often.

Edited November 12, 2003 by Bev Stapleton

[DrJ]

Well said!

Not to digress too much from the topic at hand, but I by and large agree about Lovano - I have more than a couple of his CDs, and enjoy them on occasion, but he still has yet to convince me he's the phenom many people have made him out to be. I'd be curious, Bev - do you have the CDs he did a while back for BN called RUSH HOUR and FROM THE SOUL? To me, these are still the closest he's come to an out and out masterpiece, just barely misses in each case but if he did stuff like that all the time I'd be standing in line for each new release. I've always found LANDMARKS, which was vaunted as his big "breakthrough" to be vastly overrated, as well as much that's come since.

[A Lark Ascending]

No. I have the double live disc on Blue Note which passes the time but does not excite me that much. Similarly Tenor Legacy and Universal Language - I quite like the latter. I have one of the trio discs with Motion and Frisell which I don't care for - ambient standards! I saw that trio live and I'm afraid I drifted off a couple of times!

I did see him with an Ornettish quartet a couple of years back that was an excellent concert, though again I didn't find myself responding to his playing particularly. Compare with players like David Murray, John Surman or Bobby Watson who I've seen in the same venue and been electrified by.

There's a danger that I see Lovano's name now and expect to be unimpressed. I'll need to be caught unsuspecting by a radio broadcast or a blindfold track!