Giuseppi Logan

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, "Satan's Dance" is a great little tune as is "Bleecker Partita." This music is of course characterized by many to be without compositions, but then you look at artists like Rudd, Tchicai, Shepp, Taylor, Abrams, Carla Bley, Dixon... and it's clear that people were writing a lot of things that weren't entirely out of Ornette's book or a Trane-like raga. Actually, Bley and Dixon seem to, in this period (1963-1965), be heavily influenced by George Russell.

[ep1str0phy]

Right--all ascriptions of fire and rage kind of dull/hide the fact that a lot of that music was heavily, heavily arranged. I recall a Downbeat interview with Carla Bley sometime in the 70's where she disparaged Brotzmann and Kowald--I think because of a tension between her composed aesthetic and the much more formally "open" playing of the Germans. Paraphrasing from the same interview, I remember her saying that she could only really go as far as Ornette (again, I don't have the article in front of me). I mean, it was a scene, but I don't get the impression it was a totally united front.

Listened to Everywhere again and Logan's flute comes across a lot more nuanced than I thought--though I get the impression that he's pushed further back in the mix than the others (his bass clarinet is almost inaudible for some of the ensembles). Weird.

[clifford_thornton]

I've heard recordings of Brotzmann and Kowald with Jazzrealities and it's pretty interesting from a historical point of view but of course the Fontana LP does it all way better without them. Keep in mind that Brotzmann couldn't read music at that time (not sure about Kowald). I believe that Giuseppi's reading was pretty good, from what I've been told.

Everywhere may be a little off balance in Giuseppi's favor, but I have the sneaking suspicion that he was not playing very loudly or projecting that much. If you listen to his commentary on Patty Waters' College Tour LP, it's definitely off in the distance. Maybe that was intentional, or psychological, OR a result of poor miking.

[Guest Bill Barton]

Charles Gayle is an arrogant hateful asshole as well-- why don't you tell us that part, Barton? . . .

Because I've never met the man. I thought that we were talking about music here but WTFDIK?

[Caravan]

I've heard recordings of Brotzmann and Kowald with Jazzrealities and it's pretty interesting from a historical point of view but of course the Fontana LP does it all way better without them. Keep in mind that Brotzmann couldn't read music at that time (not sure about Kowald). I believe that Giuseppi's reading was pretty good, from what I've been told.

Everywhere may be a little off balance in Giuseppi's favor, but I have the sneaking suspicion that he was not playing very loudly or projecting that much. If you listen to his commentary on Patty Waters' College Tour LP, it's definitely off in the distance. Maybe that was intentional, or psychological, OR a result of poor miking.

Don't know where you've got that from re: Brotzmann's non-reading, but I for one know from personal experience that Brotz's music reading was fine, at least in the late 1960s.

[clifford_thornton]

What he told me himself.

[AndrewHill]

What he told me himself.

You've talked to Brotz? Way cool.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, a number of times. Really, really nice guy. Interviewed him for my MA thesis in 2002 or so.

[Caravan]

Logan's Satan's Dance was a favorite of us and we played it a lot. I'm talking about Europe mid 1960s.

[clifford_thornton]

Very cool!

[randyhersom]

Alipio C. Neto, Matt Bauder, Aram Shelton, the list could go on. Malaby is "all right."

There are also players and composers who have also been working steadily over the past 40-plus years who should be getting more and more intelligent press than they do.

I have a strong affection for Giuseppi's music.

Three out of three available on eMusic, I'll be checking them out.

[Chalupa]

Cliff is this picture from your blog of your record collection??

[AndrewHill]

Woah, if that is, I'd love to know what records you have in there!

[Enterprise Server]

This is a late post but the thread about Giuseppi Logan caught my eye. I recall many years ago I was in New York and I asked drummer Sunny Murray about Giuseppi Logan. He had a sad story about the man which ended with him being a bag man in the streets. Glad to see others know about this interesting talented obscure musician. I have all his ESP recordings.

Check out:Giuseppi Logan Lives!

Giuseppi Logan

[Late]

[clifford_thornton]

FYI...

ESP-Disk' LIVE @Bowery Poetry Club

A contemporary music series

Tuesday February 17, 2009

10pm

Gunter Hampel (esp 1042)

vibes, bass clarinet, flute

“the art of the solo”

11pm

Giuseppi Logan (esp 1007, 1013, 1055) - alto sax

Matt Lavelle - trumpet/fugelhorn, bass clarinet

Francois Grillot - bass

Warren Smith - drums

First 30 people get a free CD w/ card (they’re at music shops etc. around east village)

Bowery Poetry Club

308 Bowery, NYC

$10 cover

[ep1str0phy]

If there's anyone in NY and manages to see this, please follow-up--I'm really curious. Warren Smith!

[Late]

:Oej;lk ;lk lkeosjloe!

[matt lavelle]

:Oej;lk ;lk lkeosjloe!

i was there,..and i dont know if anybody on this thread was,..but here's the deal.Giuseppe is living in a shelter in brooklyn

in his late 70's,.and nobody should be living that close to the street at any time of their life.were doing what we can to help him get back on his feet.If you were there you would have heard music that you might enjoy trying to breakdown on some technical shit,but what really went down was a man telling his story through music,.and a tone and sound that had most people their shook up because it was REAL.as for intonation and all that,.i'll quote Ornette,.."you cant ask a feeling to be in tune",.ask anybody that was there if they werent touched by Giuseppe's music.

in Giuseppe's own words,.."i dont have much time left,.and i want to go out playing",..

whatever happens now is bottom line about Giuseppe getting his music played,.and there's musicians who Love him and want to

do what they can,.so if your in NYC,.get off this discussion board and come support him.

march 21st at the brecht forum,..9pm,..all money goes to brother G.

peace.

matt Lavelle

[musicmargaret]

Several months later... Giuseppe Logan (who spells his first name with an "e" at the end) appeared again at (though not in) the Vision Festival in NYC this year and seems to be in better circumstances. He told us that he has an apartment of his own now in the East Village, which I was told by a very reliable source was acquired with the help of the Jazz Foundation. He's trying to play his alto saxophone with very few teeth, which is virtually impossible; the only other person I've known to do it successfully was the great Clarence "C" Sharpe. Mr. Logan seems to have trouble playing the alto saxophone for more than a few minutes, and it's hard to know why for sure, teeth or otherwise, but it seems to me that he stops because he's not happy with his playing. On the other hand, there was an upright piano in back of the room used as a dining hall by the Vision Festival for six nights, and Giuseppe Logan sat there and played the piano for hours on end for several evenings, and what he played was really lovely and fascinating, hesitantly delivered, but with exquisite harmonics. (He was working on "Giant Steps" for most of one evening while we were there.) This is from a man who probably hasn't had the opportunity to spend time with a piano for half a century.

According to “The Encyclopedia of Jazz in the ‘6O’s" (Leonard Feather) and some other sources, Giuseppe Logan was born in Philadelphia on May 22, 1935. After singing in choirs and playing in his school band, he made his professional debut at 15. He studied with Dennis Sandole and others, and also at New England Conservatory. When interviewed for “The Encyclopedia,” he stated that politics, religion, and philosophy play an active role in all arts, and his ambition was to write a symphony. A somewhat mysterious figure, Mr. Logan was self-taught on piano and drums from age 12 before switching to reeds. At 15 he began playing gigs (his most conventional job was with Earl Bostic). In 1964 he moved to New York and became closely involved with the “free jazz” scene. Mr. Logan (who at that time played alto, bass clarinet, flute, tenor, piano, and Pakistani oboe) worked with Bill Dixon, Pharoah Sanders, and Archie Shepp, then formed his own quartet, which also included a young Don Pullen, Eddie Gomez, and Milford Graves; they appeared at the October Revolution in Jazz in 1964. Later on, Giuseppe Logan had a different quartet with Dave Burrell, was a member of Byard Lancaster‘s band, and toured with Patty Waters. He recorded three sets as a leader for ESP (reissued on CD) and also made guest appearances on records by Ms. Waters and Roswell Rudd (the latter for Impulse!).

About his recordings, these comments appear in the "All Music Guide" and elsewhere: One of the most uncompromisingly “out” free jazz records of its time is The Giuseppe Logan Quartet (re-released on ESP CD in ‘O8). This 1964 session features Giuseppe Logan on tenor and alto sax, Pakistani oboe, clarinet, flute, and even bass, backed with a piano-bass-drums trio featuring drummer Milford Graves, who doubles on tabla, adding the then-unique Indian percussion sound to the opener, “Tabla Suite.” The other four tracks are slightly more restrained than that wild start, but while pianist Don Pullen and bassist Eddie Gomez occasionally slip into recognizable chord patterns and time signatures (particularly on the almost conventional opening section of the 15-minute “Bleeker Partita”), the completely free playing of Mr. Logan and Mr. Graves keeps the set firmly in free jazz territory. “More” with the same quartet was released on ESP in ‘65 and reissued on Calibre in 2OO2; and “At Town Hall” was released on ESP also in ‘65 and is not known to have been rereleased.

Sonny Murray made these comments to "Paris Transatlantic": "They had a nice band with Giuseppe Logan. I was never sure when they first started if any of them knew what to do (laughs) but then I found out Giuseppe had a Masters degree, Don Pullen was highly educated, and Milford was good on all that Latin percussion. It was a great group, really. Giuseppe Logan lost his mind, which was really sad. That came about because his wife left him and took his son with her. He had a twelve-year-old son who could read music backwards, play the trumpet, and was a real genius. Giuseppe was very proud of his boy. When his wife left, that threw him into a tailspin he never recovered from, and he searched down south, everywhere, and he could never find his son or his wife."

Coming back to this year's Vision Festival, Henry Grimes and Giuseppe Logan felt an immediate rapport, and Henry invited Giuseppe to play during Henry's solo set. It was the first time they had played together, there was no piano in that particular space, and Giuseppe only played his alto saxophone with Henry for about two minutes, but those were the most beautiful and emotional two minutes imaginable. It was the first time, but let's hope it won't be the last.

http://www.henrygrimes.com

musicmargaret[@]earthlink.net

Edited June 29, 2009 by musicmargaret

[musicmargaret]

P.S. Mark Sheldon posted a short report and a photo of Giuseppe Logan at the piano here:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=53354.

Edited June 29, 2009 by musicmargaret

[sheldonm]

.the piano Margaret refers to is the one he's playing in the photo I posted. I'll post the alto shot this evening. Regarding him playing for a few minutes on alto, I had the same thought that Margaret did in that Giuseppe wasn't happy with his playing. He was into the tune and without warning, just put the horn down, took it apart and put it back in the case. It was an amazing few minutes with both of them playing together...hopefully it will happen again and Giuseppe with get the assistance he's needing.

m~

[relyles]

Regarding him not being physically able to play, I believe there was a feature in a recent issue of Signal To Noise that if I recall correctly suggested that he played an entire set of music recently.

[musicmargaret]

Regarding him not being physically able to play, I believe there was a feature in a recent issue of Signal To Noise that if I recall correctly suggested that he played an entire set of music recently.

Nobody wrote that Mr. Logan is not "physically able to play." He is playing his alto saxophone beautifully, but not for sustained periods of time, and he is playing piano beautifully for long periods of time. We don't know for sure why he stops playing his horn when he does, whether it's physical or not. As to the set mentioned in "Signal to Noise," I was told that there were quite a few other people on the bandstand with him, and Mr. Logan played briefly among them.

Edited June 29, 2009 by musicmargaret

[matt lavelle]

Several months later... Giuseppe Logan (who spells his first name with an "e" at the end) appeared again at (though not in) the Vision Festival in NYC this year and seems to be in better circumstances. He told us that he has an apartment of his own now in the East Village, which I was told by a very reliable source was acquired with the help of the Jazz Foundation. He's trying to play his alto saxophone with very few teeth, which is virtually impossible; the only other person I've known to do it successfully was the great Clarence "C" Sharpe. Mr. Logan seems to have trouble playing the alto saxophone for more than a few minutes, and it's hard to know why for sure, teeth or otherwise, but it seems to me that he stops because he's not happy with his playing. On the other hand, there was an upright piano in back of the room used as a dining hall by the Vision Festival for six nights, and Giuseppe Logan sat there and played the piano for hours on end for several evenings, and what he played was really lovely and fascinating, hesitantly delivered, but with exquisite harmonics. (He was working on "Giant Steps" for most of one evening while we were there.) This is from a man who probably hasn't had the opportunity to spend time with a piano for half a century.

According to “The Encyclopedia of Jazz in the ‘6O’s" (Leonard Feather) and some other sources, Giuseppe Logan was born in Philadelphia on May 22, 1935. After singing in choirs and playing in his school band, he made his professional debut at 15. He studied with Dennis Sandole and others, and also at New England Conservatory. When interviewed for “The Encyclopedia,” he stated that politics, religion, and philosophy play an active role in all arts, and his ambition was to write a symphony. A somewhat mysterious figure, Mr. Logan was self-taught on piano and drums from age 12 before switching to reeds. At 15 he began playing gigs (his most conventional job was with Earl Bostic). In 1964 he moved to New York and became closely involved with the “free jazz” scene. Mr. Logan (who at that time played alto, bass clarinet, flute, tenor, piano, and Pakistani oboe) worked with Bill Dixon, Pharoah Sanders, and Archie Shepp, then formed his own quartet, which also included a young Don Pullen, Eddie Gomez, and Milford Graves; they appeared at the October Revolution in Jazz in 1964. Later on, Giuseppe Logan had a different quartet with Dave Burrell, was a member of Byard Lancaster‘s band, and toured with Patty Waters. He recorded three sets as a leader for ESP (reissued on CD) and also made guest appearances on records by Ms. Waters and Roswell Rudd (the latter for Impulse!).

About his recordings, these comments appear in the "All Music Guide" and elsewhere: One of the most uncompromisingly “out” free jazz records of its time is The Giuseppe Logan Quartet (re-released on ESP CD in ‘O8). This 1964 session features Giuseppe Logan on tenor and alto sax, Pakistani oboe, clarinet, flute, and even bass, backed with a piano-bass-drums trio featuring drummer Milford Graves, who doubles on tabla, adding the then-unique Indian percussion sound to the opener, “Tabla Suite.” The other four tracks are slightly more restrained than that wild start, but while pianist Don Pullen and bassist Eddie Gomez occasionally slip into recognizable chord patterns and time signatures (particularly on the almost conventional opening section of the 15-minute “Bleeker Partita”), the completely free playing of Mr. Logan and Mr. Graves keeps the set firmly in free jazz territory. “More” with the same quartet was released on ESP in ‘65 and reissued on Calibre in 2OO2; and “At Town Hall” was released on ESP also in ‘65 and is not known to have been rereleased.

Sonny Murray made these comments to "Paris Transatlantic": "They had a nice band with Giuseppe Logan. I was never sure when they first started if any of them knew what to do (laughs) but then I found out Giuseppe had a Masters degree, Don Pullen was highly educated, and Milford was good on all that Latin percussion. It was a great group, really. Giuseppe Logan lost his mind, which was really sad. That came about because his wife left him and took his son with her. He had a twelve-year-old son who could read music backwards, play the trumpet, and was a real genius. Giuseppe was very proud of his boy. When his wife left, that threw him into a tailspin he never recovered from, and he searched down south, everywhere, and he could never find his son or his wife."

Coming back to this year's Vision Festival, Henry Grimes and Giuseppe Logan felt an immediate rapport, and Henry invited Giuseppe to play during Henry's solo set. It was the first time they had played together, there was no piano in that particular space, and Giuseppe only played his alto saxophone with Henry for about two minutes, but those were the most beautiful and emotional two minutes imaginable. It was the first time, but let's hope it won't be the last.

http://www.henrygrimes.com

musicmargaret[@]earthlink.net