1953 Massey Hall "Greatest Jazz Concert Ever"

[Mr. Cam]

Who on these boards is a 1953 Massey Hall "Greatest Jazz Concert Ever" expert?

I would like to identify a track I have that calims to be from the Massey Hall Concert.

Perhaps a fellow jazz lover can help me?

Edited January 19, 2009 by Mr. Cam

[JSngry]

Don Brown was there!

What tune you talkin' about?

[bichos]

that must be the track "bass-ically speaking". a studio recording with billy taylor at the piano from the same period. or do you mean the unissued tracks with the cbc all-stars?

recommendable is the book "cool blues, charlie parker in canada 1953" by mark miller (nightwood editions, london, ontario 1989). very intersting!

keep boppin´

marcel

[Ted O'Reilly]

Y'know who else was there? Rob McConnell -- I learned this recently when he told a story about buying Bird a drink at the Silver Rail tavern on the break.

An underage 18 year old, he had to borrow the money to do it, but he HAD to at least talk to Bird.

"Can I buy you a drink?" "Sure, kid. Bartender, a double please..." Gulp.

[Mr. Cam]

I have a 28mb, 12:15 MP3 file that I can send to anyone that will help me identify it. I need to know if

this number was actually played at the Massey Hall concert???

Well, this track I have is a quintet and I have downloaded it twice from the internet. This track lists

Powell, Roach, Mingus, Dizzy, & Bird as the players and the title: "I've got you under my skin".

However, I have heard a clip of the "I've Got you under my Skin" they played at Massey Hall, not the

same number. But I have most of Charlie's recordings and I KNOW what Charlie sounds like. This cut

features TWO sax solos and it sure sounds like Bird. That is why if I send it to one of my fellow

jazz lovers you can listen to it and possibly identify it.

This cut is 12:15 in length and was recroded LIVE and the sound quality is excellent. It opens with a

man saying "a one two three four", at the 00:02 sec mark the paino starts and at the 00:25 sec. mark,

the trumpet comes in on top of the piano, at the 00:39 sec. mark the drum comes in and ends at the

00:45 sec. mark, at the 00:59 sec. mark the drum comes in again, bass comes in at the 1:06 mark, the

FIRST sax solo starts at the 1:26 mark & during the first sax solo the sax plays on top of the bass,

you can hear the drums, but only ocasionally. FIRST SAX solo ends at the 3:29 mark with light

appluse from 3:33 until about 3:40, at the 3:32 mark the trumpet solo begins and plays on top of the

bass and ends at the 5:36 mark. The SECOND sax solo starts at the 5:39 mark and the SAX SOLO

sax plays on top of the bass. More light appluse from 5:37 until about the 5:43 mark, from the 7:26

until the 7:27 mark the drummer taps his drumstick 4 times in the be-bop fashion and the SECOND

sax solo ends at the 7:39 mark. A beautiful paino solo begins at the 7:41 mark with more light

appluse from 7:42 until about the 7:48 mark. PIANO solo ends at the 9:41 mark with more light

appluse from 9:43 until about the 9:51 mark. A beautiful BASS solo begins at 9:41 and ends at the

10:41 mark. The trumpet comes in again on top of the piano at 10:41 and the drums come in at the

10:54 mark. The trumpet, piano, and drums repeat the same molodic pattern the number began with

and this pattern ends at the 11:40 mark. At the 11:43 mark the trumpet begins with a shift in rhythm

and melody but the piano maintains the same melody and rhythm it started the number with and the

paino ends at the 11:57 mark. At the 11:57 mark the trumpet ends. At the 11:56 mark the drums begin

its finishing flourishes and ends at 12:11. LIght applause from 12:06 until the 12:15 mark.

Mr. Cam.

[Nate Dorward]

I think this is really two separate questions: (1) who are the musicians? and (2) if it's the same/similar lineup as the one on the Massey Hall concert then is it actually from the concert?

FWIW, if the sound quality is "excellent" then I would guess that it's not from the Massey Hall concert, which is fairly poorly recorded (including the infamously inaudible bass that was later overdubbed).

I don't have the Miller book to hand but my recollection is that the extant album of the concert is everything by the trio & the quintet that exists, though there are some obvious edits within the tracks. The missing material was by a Toronto band, not the stars, & I believe that Parker guested with them at the end of the night (a performance now lost?). Anyway, I can check with the book if you like.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Nate Dorward

[kh1958]

The Mingus Debut box restores the unedited Massey Hall performances. There is a trio performance of I've Got You Under My Skin, with Bud, Mingus and Roach. The quintet performance consists of two short sets, three songs each: Wee, Hot House and A Night in Tunisia, then Perdido, Salt Peanuts, All the Things You Are/52nd Street Theme. The longest song is Hot House, which is 8:58. So I'm not sure what you are listening to, but it's not from the Massey Hall Concert recorded by Charles Mingus.

[John L]

The best thing to do would be to place the file somewhere where we can all stream it. Given the knowledge at this Board, you should be able to get good feedback on whether this is a known performance or really something new.

It seems strange to me that Bird & Diz would have chosen "I've Got You Under My Skin" for the Massey Hall concert. They didn't play that one very much. The only recorded Charlie Parker version that I know of is from his very last (Cole Porter) session for Verve.

Edited January 20, 2009 by John L

[Mr. Cam]

How do I stream an mp3 file?

[Gheorghe]

until the 7:27 mark the drummer taps his drumstick 4 times in the be-bop fashion and the SECOND

. At the 11:43 mark the trumpet begins with a shift in rhythm

and melody but the piano maintains the same melody and rhythm it started the number with and the

paino ends at the 11:57 mark.

I don´t know exactly what you mean with "taps his drumstick 4 times in the be-bop fashion.....what´s that? I would have liked to ask Max what´s that supposed to tap his drumstick 4 times in the be-bop fashion.....

Are you really sure you know what be-bop drummin´is like?

And what´s that what Bud´s supposed to do while Diz "begin´s with a shift in rhythm and melody while Bud maintains the same melody an rhythm it started the number with?" Bud was "off" some times in his live but I doubt he wouldn´t response to some hip phrases by Diz in the same hip and quick manner.

Too bad I can´t hear your tape, but even if you tell me how to play it, I can´t do it since I don´t have boxes attached to my PC so I couldn´t hear the shit. That´s bad, I think I know at least something about the music , especially if it´s about bop, but I´m a total dummy if it´s about modern manners to receive or to send files....

But even if your "review" doesn´t reveal much about the music, I´m really sure the tape is n o t from Massey Hall, I´d doubt even if it´s Bird, Diz, Bud etc.

And as I told you on pm, and as @JohnL told you here: that Cole Porter tune was recorded by Bird only once, in 1954 on his last album.

I´d say your file is mistitled. Whatever it is and from where it´s taken, be aware of the fact that a lot of bull.... is written even on album covers.

[John L]

How do I stream an mp3 file?

Since you have an MP3, you can upload to to one of one of many free sites for public access. For example: YouSendIt

[AllenLowe]

just an aside, if you can ever get hold of the un-dubbed original it is MUCH better sounding than the one in which Mingus overdubbed - perfectly good sound, IMHO, clear, all musicians audible. A truly great concert recording -

[JSngry]

Mr Cam sent me a file purporting to be this cut, only it was an "AVS Media Demo" (as the repeated voice over constantly reminded me) of a latter-day Blakey cut - Bobby Watson's "Time Will Tell", from The Birthday Concert. Only it shows as being from a repackaging of that album under Wynton's name (Angel Eyes).

So whatever's going on here with this thread and these requests, it ain't real. Or if it is....whoa.

[AllenLowe]

STRANGE

[Mr. Cam]

Bottom Line, can you name the musicians, time, and place of the performance??? For my part, I did not make any claims, I only wanted help to identify the

clip. And any claims by you beyond that, exist in your head and your head alone.

And the only "STRANGE" thing that happened here:

"Well, this track I have is a quintet and I have downloaded it twice from the internet. This track lists Powell, Roach, Mingus, Dizzy, & Bird as the players

and the title: "I've got you under my skin". However, I have heard a clip of the "I've Got you under my Skin" they played at Massey Hall, not the same

number. But I have most of Charlie's recordings and I KNOW what Charlie sounds like. This cut features TWO sax solos and it sure sounds like Bird.

That is why if I send it to one of my fellow jazz lovers you can listen to it and possibly identify it".

Someone has a reading comprehension issue.

[AllenLowe]

STRANGER

[John Tapscott]

Someone has a reading comprehension issue.

No, someone has a listening problem.

[kh1958]

Also, overcompensating for feelings of font inadequacy.

[AllenLowe]

STRANGEST

i have the biggest font

[JSngry]

Bottom Line, can you name the musicians, time, and place of the performance???

Yes.

Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers

Wynton Marsalis (tp) Bobby Watson (as) Billy Pierce (ts) James Williams (p) Charles Fambrough (b) Art Blakey (d)

"Bubba's Jazz Restaurant", Fort Lauderdale, FL, October 11, 1980

The tune is Bobby Watson's "Time Will Tell".

[Dan Gould]

Also, overcompensating for feelings of font inadequacy.

Bottom Line, can you name the musicians, time, and place of the performance???

Yes.

Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers

Wynton Marsalis (tp) Bobby Watson (as) Billy Pierce (ts) James Williams (p) Charles Fambrough (b) Art Blakey (d)

"Bubba's Jazz Restaurant", Fort Lauderdale, FL, October 11, 1980

The tune is Bobby Watson's "Time Will Tell".

Jim, did you recognize this because you are so familiar with the recording or did Windows Media Player do the ID-ing for you? I mean, it seems ridiculous that someone would claim to have a recording that he's certain is Bird and its a well-known standard but its actually a Bobby Watson original?

[jazzbo]

My immediate thought was "did he send the wrong MP3?"

[JSngry]

Jim, did you recognize this because you are so familiar with the recording or did Windows Media Player do the ID-ing for you? I mean, it seems ridiculous that someone would claim to have a recording that he's certain is Bird and its a well-known standard but its actually a Bobby Watson original?

Well, first of all, it was immediately apparent that it wasn't "I've Got You Under My Skin", nor was it Bird/Diz/Bud/Massey Hall in either personnel or age, even though the file was so named (explicitly - and lengthily so!).

WMP ID'd the tune as being "Angel Eyes" & the lead artist being Wynton, but I certainly recognized Blakey, and to a lesser degree, Watson. So it took no articular clerness and/or depth of perception on my part to realize that this was a blakey w/Wynton cut. From there, it became a matter of simple detective work. My first guess was the Bubba's session, because I have almost all of the other Blakey/Wynton material and didn't recognize this piece. Sure enough, there it was, and it turns out that this particular tune is one that has been included in the seemingly innumerable collections of the Bubba's material far less often than most of the others.

In retrospect (and after a nap), I'm thinking that perhaps Mr. Cam approached the group projecting a surety that he in fact did not posses. The O-Boardian Contingent can sometimes be an intimidating bunch, and hell, we got one guy in our midst who was actually at Massey Hall that night. So perhaps Mr. Cam wanted to not come off as "inexperienced" in the face of such a group, even though the exact opposite has happened.

If that's what happened, well, then, hey, I understand, no hard feelings, consider it a learning experience, and I apologize for any "smugness" I might have projected. There is no sin in not knowing, only in not finding out, dig?

If, otoh, the guy was just joking or otherwise looking to prank, hey, ok, good job, you cdrtainly got my attention, but game over, and hopefully for good.

[papsrus]

This thread has all the elements of greatness: A new mysterious figure appears with a riddle, some detective work is launched, sudden hairpin plot twists, comedic relief, conflict, resolution, a happy ending where everything is revealed to gasps from the spellbound audience. ... Best of all you can digest the whole thing in the time it takes to cook a 3 minute egg. ... Masterful! Bravo.

My favorite thread.

[Shrdlu]

Viagra is great for font problems. I hear.