Art Pepper Village Vanguard set for $29.99

[DMP]

As much as I like this set (and I had the original LP's and CD reissues before picking up the box), I don't put it on very often. For me it's the drums. Elvin Jones is the greatest, but not in every situation, and I never thought he was the best choice for Pepper. (I like him slightly more on the Contemporary LP.) I heard Pepper at his original Vanguard date, a couple months before the second, recorded engagement, and honestly I prefer what I heard then. This was the date where the original choice for piano (Jaki Byard) didn't work out, and a last minute replacement was brought in. (The group was Onaje Allan Gumbs - wonderful in this setting - Gene Perla, and Joe LaBarbera,)

Edited January 29, 2009 by DMP

[Cliff Englewood]

well, for once, Englewood agrees with me (thanks for the PM, Cliff - glad I could straighten you out on this) -

WTF are you blathering about now?, what PM?, you keep sending me PMs, and speaking of which, I really should post them one of these days, talk about someone in the end-stages of Narcissiticosa Nervosa, I really hope that's your excuse.

[Cliff Englewood]

As much as I like this set (and I had the original LP's and CD reissues before picking up the box), I don't put it on very often. For me it's the drums. Elvin Jones is the greatest, but not in every situation, and I never thought he was the best choice for Pepper. (I like him slightly more on the Contemporary LP.) I heard Pepper at his original Vanguard date, a couple months before the second, recorded engagement, and honestly I prefer what I heard then. This was the date where the original choice for piano (Jaki Byard) didn't work out, and a last minute replacement was brought in. (The group was Onaje Allan Gumbs - wonderful in this setting - Gene Perla, and Joe LaBarbera,)

I'd probably go along with DMP on this one, although I haven't listened to these recording in a while, I like them rather than love them. If I remember correctly, when I first heard these recordings I felt he started off playing pretty well on the Thursday night but dipped a little bit each night, which if you've read "Straight Life" is perfectly understandable.

Would love to hear more about those first Vanguard sets DMP, don't know much about the guys in the band except Gumbs, just from his Woody Shaw recordings.

[AllenLowe]

look cliff, there's no shame in being a leper -

[Cliff Englewood]

look cliff, there's no shame in being a leper -

Well you're the living proof of that.

[AllenLowe]

look Cliff, what does all of this have to do with Art Pepper?

[Cliff Englewood]

look Cliff, what does all of this have to do with Art Pepper?

I don't know but you really need to follow your own advice and put me on your ignore list, oh yeah and finish your film.

[kh1958]

As much as I like this set (and I had the original LP's and CD reissues before picking up the box), I don't put it on very often. For me it's the drums. Elvin Jones is the greatest, but not in every situation, and I never thought he was the best choice for Pepper. (I like him slightly more on the Contemporary LP.) I heard Pepper at his original Vanguard date, a couple months before the second, recorded engagement, and honestly I prefer what I heard then. This was the date where the original choice for piano (Jaki Byard) didn't work out, and a last minute replacement was brought in. (The group was Onaje Allan Gumbs - wonderful in this setting - Gene Perla, and Joe LaBarbera,)

I'd probably go along with DMP on this one, although I haven't listened to these recording in a while, I like them rather than love them. If I remember correctly, when I first heard these recordings I felt he started off playing pretty well on the Thursday night but dipped a little bit each night, which if you've read "Straight Life" is perfectly understandable.

Would love to hear more about those first Vanguard sets DMP, don't know much about the guys in the band except Gumbs, just from his Woody Shaw recordings.

Onaje Alan Gumbs is still active. He leads a group featuring Mark Shim (the group is excellent live) and also plays in a group under the leadership of Avery Sharpe. Return to Form (on Half Note, live at the Blue Note) is probably the best of his recent recordings.

http://www.amazon.com/Return-Form-Onaje-Al...1493&sr=1-3

[Cliff Englewood]

DMP's comment about Elvin and Art's earlier group reminded me of this post Vanguard recording;

I think it's only a week after the Vanguard and it has Cables on piano but has Michael Formanek and Eddie Marshall on bass and drums. Again, I haven't listened to it in a while but I remember that the fast numbers were really fast, maybe there were more uppers than downers for everybody that evening. :D

[DMP]

The engagement I heard at the Vanguard - his first in a NYC club, I believe - came just after a succesful appearance at the Newport/NY jazz festival (or whatever it was at that point - JVC, Kool, can't remember). Pepper was clearly thrilled to be there, and, of course, the audience was in some kind of jazz heaven. Liner note writers for the subsequent recordings always pretty much dismiss this first engagement, somehow the band wasn't up to par... But, believe me, it was terrific. Gumbs, who I had only previously heard in more commercial settings, was great - a sympathetic accompianist and really strong soloist, and Pepper was especially vocal in his admiration for what Perla was doing. Gary Giddens wrote about it in the Voice - the article probably appears in one of his collections - he probably has a better slant on this than I do, I should look it up. Anyway, as much as I like and admire George Cables, this first engagement was special.

[Cliff Englewood]

The engagement I heard at the Vanguard - his first in a NYC club, I believe - came just after a succesful appearance at the Newport/NY jazz festival (or whatever it was at that point - JVC, Kool, can't remember). Pepper was clearly thrilled to be there, and, of course, the audience was in some kind of jazz heaven. Liner note writers for the subsequent recordings always pretty much dismiss this first engagement, somehow the band wasn't up to par... But, believe me, it was terrific. Gumbs, who I had only previously heard in more commercial settings, was great - a sympathetic accompianist and really strong soloist, and Pepper was especially vocal in his admiration for what Perla was doing. Gary Giddens wrote about it in the Voice - the article probably appears in one of his collections - he probably has a better slant on this than I do, I should look it up. Anyway, as much as I like and admire George Cables, this first engagement was special.

If I may quote that oft quoted line from "The Life of Brian", you lucky, lucky bast......... :D

[AllenLowe]

well, from recorded evidence -

he was much better a few months later at Paul's Mall in Boston -

and I was there CLiff, but no need to speak with awestruck tones about my very presence - and don't get too excited but I also drove Pepper around Boston that day in search of...uh......shall we say........sustenance -

I figure the statute of limitations has run out -

Edited January 30, 2009 by AllenLowe

[Cliff Englewood]

well, from recorded evidence -

he was much better a few months later at Paul's Mall in Boston -

and I was there CLiff, but no need to speak with awestruck tones about my very presence - and don't get too excited but I also drove Pepper around Boston that day in search of...uh......shall we say........sustenance -

I figure the statute of limitations has run out -

Well if ever anyone needed to justify their decision to turn to drugs, being stuck in car with you has got to be one of the best reasons ever. Even if he got busted that day he could have just thrown himself on the mercy of the Court, "you don't understand your Honour, he just wouldn't shut up, if he wasn't going on about his 2 hour meeting with Tristano, he was blathering on about how he knew Al Haig, it was none stop, then it was about his "movie", on and on, I just had to get something to kill the pain."

[AllenLowe]

actually I think he was already on drugs, CLiff - that's why he had been in prison -

and we're more interested in your experiences - I believe you met Chuck Folds once -

Edited January 30, 2009 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

or maybe it was Bobbie Humphreys....

[AllenLowe]

or was it Mountain Girl?

[Cliff Englewood]

Lowe you must be the only man approaching 60 who has ADD.

[RDK]

You two should get a room.

[AllenLowe]

well, you're right - but he shouldn't make fun of people's disabilities -

[Ted O'Reilly]

Back to Art....

.... I heard Pepper at his original Vanguard date, a couple months before the second, recorded engagement, and honestly I prefer what I heard then. This was the date where the original choice for piano (Jaki Byard) didn't work out, and a last minute replacement was brought in. (The group was Onaje Allan Gumbs - wonderful in this setting - Gene Perla, and Joe LaBarbera,)

In the two weeks before that 'original' Vanguard date, Art was in Toronto, playing at Bourbon St. jazz club, with Bernie Senensky on piano... After the first night at the Vanguard, he called Bernie (with whom he had played beautifully) begging him to come to New York to make the gig. Senensky couldn't do it (other commitments); and in those days it would take weeks to get a green card -- he didn't want to risk permanent expulsion for working without one. Since then, Senensky has regretted not taking the chance.

I taped them one night and gave the tapes to Art. Years later in Germany, I found a CD issue as "Vol. 1 at Bourbon St.". The label was from Tijuana...

[AllenLowe]

when I met Pepper in Boston a little while after that NY gig the first thing I asked him was if he was going to play with Byard- he looked at me and kind of whispered "it didn't work out, he was just drinking too much," which I never quite believed, as Jaki seemed pretty straight in those days (but who knows?). On the other hand, I thought it was also possible that Byard wasn't the kind of pianist for Pepper, who liked a "tighter" comper - but I do wonder why he said that, as it just did not add up.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

A bunch of us organissimites took advantage of a similar Newbury deal on this set a year ago--only then it was FIFTY bucks, and we thought THAT was a terrific bargain!

I saw this thread and almost went for it, then checked and realized I already bought it. I must be getting old.

Well damn!!....that was kinda selfish of ya not to go ahead and buy that dupe anyway so that you could sell it to me. I got an e-mail from newbury/Amazon last night pulling the plug on mine because they said the cc charge didn't go through....but the card is fine, I checked. Some disconnect goin' on there. Before yanking the rug out from under ya, I wish they'd first drop you a line to say 'hey' there might be a problem...have a looksie.' The Newbury sets are now gone.

[papsrus]

A bunch of us organissimites took advantage of a similar Newbury deal on this set a year ago--only then it was FIFTY bucks, and we thought THAT was a terrific bargain!

I saw this thread and almost went for it, then checked and realized I already bought it. I must be getting old.

Well damn!!....that was kinda selfish of ya not to go ahead and buy that dupe anyway so that you could sell it to me. I got an e-mail from newbury/Amazon last night pulling the plug on mine because they said the cc charge didn't go through....but the card is fine, I checked. Some disconnect goin' on there. Before yanking the rug out from under ya, I wish they'd first drop you a line to say 'hey' there might be a problem...have a looksie.' The Newbury sets are now gone.

Yikes. I'd cancel the card post-haste if it were me and get the credit card company to issue a new one ... with a higher credit limit.

I jumped on this at 50 smackers from newbury a couple of years ago. No regrets. Great music.

[JSngry]

Just got htis one in last week, my first purchase from Newbury, won't be my last.

I dig this music quite a bit actually. "Weird" it might be, at least relative to his earlier stuff, but it's also honest, and I'm not so sure but that ultimately it might not be more honest than Pepper's earlier work. Art Pepper was a fucked up dude who never really was relaxed or anything like that. His earlier work tries to cover that up, his later work doesn't. Now sure, I've heard some later Pepper that is godawful horrible, it's so disjointed and forced, but thee Vanguard sessions don't strike me that way at all.

Again, though, different strokes and all that. What you get out of it is going to be greatly tied to what you're looking for, or think you should get. Fair enough, that is.

[gslade]

I have not seen this posted elsewhere, so I would just like all of you to know that Newbury Comics is presently offering the Art Pepper Village Vanguard 9-CD set ("brand new, factory sealed") for $29.99 on Amazon.com.

I realize that SecondSpin and Wherehouse have been offering this set for slightly less for quite some time now, but I feel much more comfortable purchasing from Newbury Comics.

On a related note, has anyone on this board had an opportunity to listen to the K-2 version of this set? If so, what are your thoughts of the sound quality as opposed to that of the standard set? Thanks for your insight.

I have not seen this posted elsewhere, so I would just like all of you to know that Newbury Comics is presently offering the Art Pepper Village Vanguard 9-CD set ("brand new, factory sealed") for $29.99 on Amazon.com.

I realize that SecondSpin and Wherehouse have been offering this set for slightly less for quite some time now, but I feel much more comfortable purchasing from Newbury Comics.

On a related note, has anyone on this board had an opportunity to listen to the K-2 version of this set? If so, what are your thoughts of the sound quality as opposed to that of the standard set? Thanks for your insight.

A great set for a crazy price

I had the K2 set and sold it. The highs sounded boosted, too "sharp/edgy" to my ears. The regular set is a bit better in that respect.

well, from recorded evidence -

he was much better a few months later at Paul's Mall in Boston -

and I was there CLiff, but no need to speak with awestruck tones about my very presence - and don't get too excited but I also drove Pepper around Boston that day in search of...uh......shall we say........sustenance -

I figure the statute of limitations has run out -

I have the K2 version of this set and I love it.

But I would not spend high dollars for it.

On my last system you could almost feel the drug fueled mania of Mr. Pepper (listen to him speak)

(been around people in that state)

very sad but some great moments. A treasure in my collection.