I'm not dead yet

[Royal Oak]

How about that? Zavvi UK has gone into administration today.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

How about that? Zavvi UK has gone into administration today.

Not a surprise. Virgin was going downhill already. The talk on the street, when it was sold, was that Branson added a hundred million quid in training into the package as a persuader, because he didn't want to be associated with a failed enterprise - bad for all his other businesses.

I suppose I should be sorry for the staff but they're so crappy in the Cardiff Zavvi that I can't but attribute part of the failure to them. Faced with false cheerfulness backing up lack of knowledge - or couldn't care less attitudes, which characterises the other half of the staff - it's hardly surprising that people walk elsewhere or use the web.

MG

[JohnJ]

Reading this thread makes me realize how lucky I am to be living in Tokyo!

Tower and HMV still have excellent jazz sections while Disk Union has to be the best used store anywhere in terms of both selection and price (they have several stores around Tokyo).

[marcello]

And WH Smug in small market towns isn't much good - the one in Pontypridd has the top thirty, not usually all in stock.

MG

I wonder how mean can the streets be in a town called Pontypridd?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

And WH Smug in small market towns isn't much good - the one in Pontypridd has the top thirty, not usually all in stock.

MG

I wonder how mean can the streets be in a town called Pontypridd?

Depends on how dark it is

Pontypridd means bridge over depression or hole and it is a bit of a depressing hole.

MG

[sidewinder]

How about that? Zavvi UK has gone into administration today.

Don't think I ever bought a CD from them. The prices and selection in every store I set foot in were a joke.

Fopp, on the other hand, were way better jazz-wise.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

How about that? Zavvi UK has gone into administration today.

Don't think I ever bought a CD from them. The prices and selection in every store I set foot in were a joke.

Fopp, on the other hand, were way better jazz-wise.

Not in Cardiff. Fopp in Cardiff was awful in every department! And right across the road (virtually) from Virgin/Zavvi. I rather think local management might exert more influence on how these chain stores did than is generally reckoned.

MG

[ejp626]

How about that? Zavvi UK has gone into administration today.

Don't think I ever bought a CD from them. The prices and selection in every store I set foot in were a joke.

Fopp, on the other hand, were way better jazz-wise.

Not in Cardiff. Fopp in Cardiff was awful in every department! And right across the road (virtually) from Virgin/Zavvi. I rather think local management might exert more influence on how these chain stores did than is generally reckoned.

MG

I thought the Fopp in Cambridge was pretty good, and I picked up a number of jazz titles for 5 pounds, as well as a couple of Blue Note covers books. I probably went once or twice a month.

[sidewinder]

I thought the Fopp in Cambridge was pretty good, and I picked up a number of jazz titles for 5 pounds, as well as a couple of Blue Note covers books. I probably went once or twice a month.

The Bath Fopp ship was great - Used to regularly stock on EMI issues there (including Blue Note Conns) for £5 each. Wish that place would re-materialize !

Picked up both BN cover books there for £5 each too ! They also did a Blues cover book but missed out on that one.

Edited December 26, 2008 by sidewinder

[BillF]

I bought Lennie Tristano and Warne Marsh, Intuition (Spanish Blue Note/Capitol) for £3 at Fopp. Say no more!

Edited December 26, 2008 by BillF

[sidewinder]

I bought Lennie Tristano and Warne Marsh, Intuition (Spanish Blue Note/Capitol) for £3 at Fopp. Say no more!

The Spanish Blue Notes were great. Quite often they were Toshiba TOCJ masterings in cunning disguise !

Edited December 26, 2008 by sidewinder

[A Lark Ascending]

I always found Fopp a bit random - you could find complete surprises, could rely on a wide range of Blue Notes and Fantasy stuff at cheap prices. Yet full price was more expensive than the main shops. But it wasn't the sort of place you could go into expecting to find certain core recordings/performers represented.

The little I saw of Zavvi in its short life was pitiful. They seemed to have classical, folk, blues, jazz etc all jumbled up as 'specialist' music. The choice was limited to things that had made some sort of splash via awards etc.

That just leaves HMV which has gone the same way as Zavvi. There were dire warnings about them last Xmas. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go in the current cull, wiping out CD sales from not just middling but major towns in Britain (apart from the supermarkets and ahandful of independents).

I don't think it was the deciding factor but I wonder if 'diversification' has been a contributory cause of these collapses. Instead of concentrating on what they know, these stores have tried to get involved in DVD, mobile phones, books, tea shirts etc - one-stop entertainment shops - in search of bigger profits. That has taken away their distinctiveness and put them in direct competition with all the other stores who have 'diversified'. They were bound to lose out to the supermarkets.

[Royal Oak]

I tend to agree that the diversification route has weakened some of these stores. I would hazard a guess that my local HMV (Stockport, a large town), stocks more non-music product than music.

Their jazz section has always been pretty poor, but like Bev says, it's now lumped in with easy listening/blues/country/classical as "specialist". I went in a couple of weeks back and was surprised to see a couple of Concord RVGs, but they were charging 14 or 16 quid for them!

It's not as if HMV has any specialist music-shop competition in Stockport; the last few years has seen the disappearance of Sam Goody, Our Price and Music Zone. I note also that our Borders store (a BIG one) now stocks virtually no music.

[Jazzjet]

I always found Fopp a bit random - you could find complete surprises, could rely on a wide range of Blue Notes and Fantasy stuff at cheap prices. Yet full price was more expensive than the main shops. But it wasn't the sort of place you could go into expecting to find certain core recordings/performers represented.

Count yourself lucky. Here in Truro, Fopp opened and closed after about 9 months. God knows why they opened in the first place. On the positive side we haven't got a Zavvi here so not effected by their closure! Just one shop here now - HMV - and the way things are going they'll gradually shift the jazz section into the broom cupboard to make way for more useless DVDs. What I don't understand is if its cheaper and easier to buy CDs online why doesn't the same apply to DVDs when shop space allocated is increasing.

[BillF]

I always found Fopp a bit random - you could find complete surprises, could rely on a wide range of Blue Notes and Fantasy stuff at cheap prices. Yet full price was more expensive than the main shops. But it wasn't the sort of place you could go into expecting to find certain core recordings/performers represented.

Count yourself lucky. Here in Truro, Fopp opened and closed after about 9 months. God knows why they opened in the first place. On the positive side we haven't got a Zavvi here so not effected by their closure! Just one shop here now - HMV - and the way things are going they'll gradually shift the jazz section into the broom cupboard to make way for more useless DVDs. What I don't understand is if its cheaper and easier to buy CDs online why doesn't the same apply to DVDs when shop space allocated is increasing.

CDs significantly replaced by downloading, DVDs not as yet.

[Swinging Swede]

The Woolworths collapse (a big chain) has an interesting implication for physical CDs. For some time Woolies and WH Smiths have been the only places you'd find CDs in the centre of a middling market town like Worksop. Only a small selection of popular recordings but at least a place for young buyers to start. With Woolies gone that just leaves Smiths. Soon, if you want the latest Abba Compilation or debut CD by a TV talent show winner, you're going to have to head out to the supermarkets on the periphery.

The end of the CD may be much nearer than even I've predicted.

I don't see physical shops closing down equating the end of the CD. For many years now all my CD buying has been online - CDON, CD Universe, Amazon, directly from some labels' websites etc. Much better selection, much lower prices, you can sample the tracks, read reviews, you get a fresh new copy where the booklet hasn't been greased and creased by some other customer, and you don't have to travel anywhere, but can sit in the comfort of your home and order. The only disadvantage is that you don't get the CDs immediately, but the advantages clearly outweigh the disadvantages IMHO.

[A Lark Ascending]

I don't see physical shops closing down equating the end of the CD. For many years now all my CD buying has been online - CDON, CD Universe, Amazon, directly from some labels' websites etc. Much better selection, much lower prices, you can sample the tracks, read reviews, you get a fresh new copy where the booklet hasn't been greased and creased by some other customer, and you don't have to travel anywhere, but can sit in the comfort of your home and order. The only disadvantage is that you don't get the CDs immediately, but the advantages clearly outweigh the disadvantages IMHO.

If we're all more or less forced to buy online by the disappearance of the CD shop the question for the producers will be 'why bother to put it on a physical product at all if you can remove all the storeage, distributions costs just by streaming it (music and packaging)?'.

As long as they know there is a large body of consumers who will not accept downloading they'll stick with the CD. But a tipping point will come where enough of even the more traditional recording buyers (e.g me!) start to accept downloading. At that point the physical CDs will start to disappear (apart from some vanity labels (a bit like those who continue to put out vinyl for a niche market)).

I think it will happen very quickly - like the LP/CD changeover in the late 80s (which followed an initial period of suspicion).

And as with LP there will be a small body of collectors who will continue to feel that the new format is inferior to the old. But I suspect the bulk of people who want to buy music (not just kids and people with cloth ears) will adapt.

For me the disappearance of the Fopps, Zavvis etc is of interest because I grew up and lived most of my life buying from record shops. On the rare occasions I visit a big town or city these days I find it strange to not have a place to browse for recordings. But I'm happy to forsake that for the greater flexibility of downloading.

I know I'm in a minority on a board like this with that outlook. We'll just have to see how things play out.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Bev Stapleton