CJ Shearn Posted March 30, 2003 Report Posted March 30, 2003 (edited) the 3 disc set is on it's way to me. I only have the Morgan Mosaic and the Procrastinor Connoiseur (gotta get the Sidwinder sometime too, and a RVG of Leeway to replace a CDR) as far as leader stuff goes. ordered it b/c I'm very interested in hearing Morgan at that late stage in his career and also for Bennie Maupin, so I'll hopefully enjoy it. Question is: I looked at the Japanese Mogie discography site, and it says that Jack DeJohnette sat in for some tunes on all three nights of the engagement. How many tunes does he sit in on the set, just "Speedball"? Edited March 30, 2003 by CJ Shearn Quote
CJ Shearn Posted March 30, 2003 Author Report Posted March 30, 2003 thanks. I love Jack's approach to just about anything he's on. I seem to remember at the BN board many had high opinion of this set, even Lon saying he thought Lee was headed in a completely new direction from the fusion of the time and what Miles was doing. Quote
BFrank Posted March 30, 2003 Report Posted March 30, 2003 CJ - I hope you enjoy this one. If you're looking for a high energy live workout, this is the one for you. It's definitely going to be a different experience than the other Morgan sets that you have. Aside from the fact that all of the tunes are well over 10 minutes each, this is an enjoyable set from a band that was definitely at the peak of it's creativity. Quote
CJ Shearn Posted March 31, 2003 Author Report Posted March 31, 2003 (edited) BFrank, thanks........ yeah, hearing Lee in an adventurous setting taking into account Miles' innovations, fusion and free playing is what intrigues me. Most of my Morgan is w/ Blakey, so it'll be a definite change, but no matter the setting, Lee is always himself. It saddens me that the only discussion we've had in my class is of him being the trumpet player on "Moanin", he's much more than that.... the people who don't really care are gonna come off as thinking he only played one style, and if there is anyone in the class who heard that solo and thought "wow", they may not know where to begin. We were just talking about hard bop in the most basic sense (focusing mostly on Horace Silver and Miles' "Two Bass Hit"- I volunteered and brought the remastered Milestones since the version on the disc that comes from our textbook is that awful mid 80's mastering.) and I think a crucial point about Lee is that he made his first record at 18, that may not be saying much as we have Wynton. but Lee had the chops, and soul. My professor is knowledgeable and has written about music.. (his name is David Brackett) Not sure if he's aware of those pre-Sidewinder dates, I'm surprised he's unfamiliar with some dates I brought up. But, the Lighthouse set should be here tuesday at the campus post office so something to look forward to Edited March 31, 2003 by CJ Shearn Quote
Jazzmoose Posted March 31, 2003 Report Posted March 31, 2003 I agree, couw. It seemed as though Lee was finally able to convince Blue Note that it was time to move on from the Sidewinder clones and get back to exploring. Fantastic stuff. And then he was gone... Quote
CJ Shearn Posted March 31, 2003 Author Report Posted March 31, 2003 got it today, "Absolutions" is on now...... this is great, Bennie just returned from going outside. Never heard Lee push himself like this, amazing stuff so far. Love the Coltrane-ish groove of this. Quote
shawn·m Posted April 1, 2003 Report Posted April 1, 2003 Don’t know why I haven’t listened to this set in a while, next to Lee’s work with Shorter in the Messengers, it’s my favorite Morgan. Thanks to all for the reminder, it’s time to play that set again! I wonder if Blue Note will ever release the rest of the Lighthouse material. Yeah, I know, it would only be additional versions of the songs already released. Even so, Miles’ Complete Plugged Nickel is stuffed with multiple versions of “Walkin’” (for example), and part of the appeal is how differently each version was handled. Quote
CJ Shearn Posted April 1, 2003 Author Report Posted April 1, 2003 I wonder that too...... maybe Mosaic will release the extra Lighthouse material. Tom said BN boxes aren't that profitable, but I was thinking if the existing Lighthouse set was released now it'd prolly be a Mosaic Select. I haven't heard the Plugged Nickel set (on my want to buy list tho, has been for a very long time) but I think it was an old RMB post where someone considered the Lighthouse recordings as being Lee's equivalent to Miles' Plugged Nickel dates. I mean, from the liners it seems like Lee had a chops problem, and was working himself back up while having an great foil like Bennie Maupin. This set features amazing Maupin, I really like his compositions too, like the ascending harmonic movement of "Something Like This", "Peyote" and "Neophilia". Jack DeJohnette on "Speedball" whoo........ love his broken way of swinging, pushing everyone to a higher level. I would LOVE to hear the other tracks that he sat in on, I'm sure they have a more "out" edge compared to the versions which Roker plays on(some great playing from him also) Silly ? but does anyone else's copy (see my other thread on BN CD labels) have a silver/black label side, and were the discs originally packaged playing side up? (I flipped mine so that their the normal label side up) Maybe this should be the album of the week next week. Quote
Jazzmoose Posted April 1, 2003 Report Posted April 1, 2003 Yeah, mine are that color and came "upside down" as well. They look so weird "right side up" that I usually flip them over each time I play the set. So however they are now, they'll be the opposite next time I play them... Quote
BFrank Posted April 1, 2003 Report Posted April 1, 2003 I sent an email to Mosaic a year or two ago asking about the possibility of a "Complete" Lighthouse set. I got a reply saying that when they researched this version of the album (the original LP had only 4 tunes) they used pretty much all of the usable material. Quote
CJ Shearn Posted April 1, 2003 Author Report Posted April 1, 2003 what could possibly be wrong with the other unreleased tunes? sonic defects which were inherent in some of the takes included or just bad performances? Quote
bertrand Posted April 1, 2003 Report Posted April 1, 2003 (edited) If you want more material from the Lighthouse in the meantime, there is also the set on Fresh Sound (Live At The Lighthouse '70) which features some of the same tunes, but also some different ones. The sound quality is nowhere as good as the BN set, but the music is of the same high level. Among the tunes not on the BN set: two versions of 'Ceora', 'Willow Weep For me', and a track mislabeled 'Meofelia', which is really Mabern's 'The Chief', one of the three tracks from the 10/68 Morgan session with Frank Mitchell, Harold Mabern, Mickey Bass, and Billy Higgins that were deemed unfit for release (the other three are bonus cuts on the U.S. CD of Sixth Sense). 'The Chief' also shows up on Frank Strozier's What's Going On on Steeplechase. There was a lot of back and forth as to whether the Fresh Sound stuff was from the Lighthouse or from the Both/And, but it seems now that it is from the Lighthouse, albeit from earlier dates than the BN set - it is not bootleg versions of the tracks BN did not issue. Fresh Sound has done some things that could be called underhanded in the past, but they have yet to raid the BN vaults! Bertrand. Edited April 1, 2003 by bertrand Quote
shawn·m Posted April 1, 2003 Report Posted April 1, 2003 While I suppose it’s possible all “usable” material has already been released, I can’t help wonder about it. It seems amazing that the set doesn’t contain at least one alternate (?). Likewise, we’re fortunate that one version of each tune performed is available. Coincidence? Thanks for the additional info, Bertrand; I’ve wondered about the sound quality of the “other” Lighthouse. Think I’ll put the Fresh Sound stuff on the wish list anyway. Quote
brownie Posted April 1, 2003 Report Posted April 1, 2003 Bertrand, if the Fresh Sounds set is now said to be also from the Lighthouse any idea what's the tapes sources? The music is beautiful but I miss the excellent sound from the BN set. And the sound on the Fresh Sounds set is improved over the various LP bootlegs of the same material. Quote
Peter Johnson Posted April 1, 2003 Report Posted April 1, 2003 Love this set. LOVE THIS SET! I would buy the "complete" version in a minute, if it were made available. For some reason, this is one of the few live sets I have that actually makes me feel like I'm there--particularly if I'm listening to it on headphones (with a martini in my hand???). Love the idea of one of these discs for AOW, CJ, but it's going to be something a little bit different next week ...but I hereby nominate you (this is a bit early, but still) to select the album of the week for next week. I'll post this in the recommendations forum as well. Peter P.S. Mine was packed label-side up (Black and Silver, as well) Quote
mailman Posted April 2, 2003 Report Posted April 2, 2003 Bought the original lp release of this date when it was first released so many years ago. Is the additional stuff on the cd of equal quality? This was one hell of an engagement. Lee's loss still hurts today. I never cared for the 2lp studio date that followed this-the one with the awful Bobbie Humphery on flute. The scene was collapsing around players like Lee and obviously he was looking for something viable. I always heard that Donald Byrd's first date with Larry Mizell was supposed to be for Lee but his murder put an end to that. But the Lighthouse date and almost everything he cut before that--aces!! Quote
jazzbo Posted April 2, 2003 Report Posted April 2, 2003 MM, I do myself think that the new material on the three cd set is up to the quality of the original release. I'm sure you'll like it! I enjoy the "Lost Sessions" cd for what it represents, a new direction that is not necessarily the direction that others seeking something new traveled. It would have been great to see where he would have gone. . . . Quote
Jazzmoose Posted April 2, 2003 Report Posted April 2, 2003 There was a lot of back and forth as to whether the Fresh Sound stuff was from the Lighthouse or from the Both/And, but it seems now that it is from the Lighthouse, albeit from earlier dates than the BN set - it is not bootleg versions of the tracks BN did not issue. Just curious as to where the new info came from...? Quote
CJ Shearn Posted April 3, 2003 Author Report Posted April 3, 2003 hmm. so Bob Belden's "research" via Bennie Maupin was not correct? is the Fresh Sound material currently in print? Quote
Claude Posted April 3, 2003 Report Posted April 3, 2003 is the Fresh Sound material currently in print? http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/record_po...?record_id=1506 Quote
Peter Johnson Posted April 3, 2003 Report Posted April 3, 2003 Brownie, do you have the set mentioned at the link above? How is it? I'd love to pick this up... Thanks for your thoughts. PJ Quote
CJ Shearn Posted April 3, 2003 Author Report Posted April 3, 2003 thanks for the link. Will check out the FS set at somepoint. love the BN set tho of which could become AOW soon. Quote
bertrand Posted April 3, 2003 Report Posted April 3, 2003 Hmmm... Now you guys have me wondering if I got my information wrong. I thought for along time that the Fresh Sound stuff was from S.F., and then I could have sworn someone told me it was really from the Lighthouse. I can't remember who told me this or how reliable a source he/she was. What did Belden say? That no dates before the BN ones were ever recorded? That would contradict what I was told. But then Maupin was there, so you think he would remember. Bertrand. Quote
J.A.W. Posted April 3, 2003 Report Posted April 3, 2003 (edited) The Penguin Guide (sixth edition) insists that the Fresh Sound contains material that was recorded at the "Both / And" in June 1970, a month before the Lighthouse date. I wonder who's right... Edited April 3, 2003 by J.A.W. Quote
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