musicians you usually like better on OTHER people's dates...

[Rooster_Ties]

One that comes to mind for me...

Steve Coleman -- I think he's really fantastic on all of the Dave Holland's leader-dates (plus "Phase Space" -- which should probably be a co-leader credit to both Coleman and Holland). But I'm a little less enthusiastic about Steve's own leader dates -- which all kinda wear me out. (I respect the hell out of Steve's leader dates (they're incredible!) -- but I can never get through more than 2 or 3 tracks before I want or need to put something else on.)

Anyone others come to mind?? Discuss.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Rooster_Ties

[mikelz777]

Oscar Peterson - I love OP comping behind another artist and find that I like him more in a supportive role rather than a leadership role. Maybe it's because he's a bit more restrained in a supportive role and doesn't feel the need to go through the piano gymnastics we often hear when he's in the spotlight. To my ears he sounds more relaxed as a sideman and sounds just as impressive as when he's playing hard to show off his chops.

Edited December 18, 2008 by mikelz777

[RDK]

Hell, I'm gonna get shit for this one, but... Ornette Coleman. I love many of his compositions but often prefer his music as played by others, such as Old & New Dreams. Not exactly the question, I know, so how 'bout his playing on Jackie McLean's "New & Old Gospel?" I actually prefer his trumpet playing on the title track to much of his sax playing on his own dates. He also has a few tracks on a Geri Allen disc that I like. That's not to say that I dislike all of OC's albums. I think his trio as documented on the live Golden Circle sides is brilliant. Also like "Soapsuds" and the other duets he did with Haden - who I consider a co-leader here.

[blajay]

Junior Cook. I was just listening to Pressure Cooker last night, and I like it, but it's just missing something. I kept thinking, I wish that were HS on piano--that would really make this swing!

[BillF]

Oscar Peterson - I love OP comping behind another artist and find that I like him more in a supportive role rather than a leadership role. Maybe it's because he's a bit more restrained in a supportive role and doesn't feel the need to go through the piano gymnastics we often hear when he's in the spotlight. To my ears he sounds more relaxed as a sideman and sounds just as impressive as when he's playing hard to show off his chops.

Fully agree! (My record collection includes no OP leader dates, but dozens with him in excellent supporting role.)

[king ubu]

Agreed on Peterson, too.

Also Freddie Hubbard - he is on such a huge number of great and important albums (Ascension, Maiden Voyage, Blues and the Abstract Truth to name just three), yet somehow his own albums (including what likely are my favourites, Open Sesame and Goin' Up) are somewhat less interesting to me.

(Don't take this as a harsh comment directed at an ailing musician please, I've always felt like this about Hubbard)

[sidewinder]

Pepper Adams comes to mind - albums under his own name only are invariably good but he always seems to pull out the stops and hit home runs on other dates (particularly with Mingus, Thad & Mel, Adams/Byrd etc.)

[king ubu]

I just have to add "Out to Lunch" and "Speak no Evil" to the great Hubbard sideman albums list!

Adams didn't do that much under his own name, did he? The Mode/VSOP is ok, the OJC I don't have, his "Julian" for Enja is very good. But with Jones/Lewis he always was quite a force of nature! One of their most exciting soloists, for sure!

[John L]

Agreed on Peterson, too.

Also Freddie Hubbard - he is on such a huge number of great and important albums (Ascension, Maiden Voyage, Blues and the Abstract Truth to name just three), yet somehow his own albums (including what likely are my favourites, Open Sesame and Goin' Up) are somewhat less interesting to me.

(Don't take this as a harsh comment directed at an ailing musician please, I've always felt like this about Hubbard)

Freddie Hubbard is the first hame that came to my mind as well. He has made some excellent albums as a leader, but his career highlights for me are mostly the huge contributions that he made to a number of jazz masterpieces under other leadership.

I don't agree on Peterson, however. I tend not to enjoy his busy comping behind horn players at all, although do enjoy his trio recordings every now and again. The Verve dates with Ben Webster and Coleman Hawkins did work out quite well, however.

[Royal Oak]

Wynton Kelly for me. I only have the OJCs "Kelly Blue" and "Piano" with him as leader, but I don't them play nearly as much as I should, given how much I love his playing.

[sidewinder]

Adams didn't do that much under his own name, did he?

There's more than I too initially thought out there. The session for Pacific Jazz, one for Workshop Jazz, the Spotlites and a few more who elude me at this moment. Fantastic player, for sure.

[sidewinder]

Kevin Eubanks is another one who comes to mind. Don't know about his GRP stuff (have avoided them). His Blue Notes are nice but nothing exceptional - the recordings with Dave Holland are considerably better.

[Niko]

unsure about woody shaw... maybe it's not his playing, maybe unity is just a better album than those of shaw's leader dates i have heard

[sidewinder]

Shake Keane's another one. His solo dates are indifferent and bordering on MOR. His work with Joe Harriott on the other hand is exemplary.

[BillF]

Adams didn't do that much under his own name, did he?

There's more than I too initially thought out there. The session for Pacific Jazz, one for Workshop Jazz, the Spotlites and a few more who elude me at this moment. Fantastic player, for sure.

I have two Adams leader dates, a quintet on VSOP/Mode and Critics' Choice originally on World Pacific, and they're both very good IMO.

[AllenLowe]

cootie williams - bubber miley - both great musicians, didn't make half as intersting music on their own dates -

Jimmy Knepper - great great great trombonist, nice guy, but strangely (or maybe not so strangley) obtuse about Mingus and the jazz world in general - very negative privately (and not so privately) about Mingus, who did punch him in the mouth; however, he did his best work with the bassist -

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

cootie williams - bubber miley - both great musicians, didn't make half as intersting music on their own dates -

Come on, Cootie's 1944 band was incredible!

I can see you're not going to include "Cherry red" in your blues project, Allen

MG

[AllenLowe]

band was great, I agree - but I find that Cootie's own playing was never near his work with Duke -

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

band was great, I agree - but I find that Cootie's own playing was never near his work with Duke -

OK, see what you mean. His solo on "Round midnight" often makes me think of Eddie Calvert.

MG

[paul secor]

Jimmy Knepper - great great great trombonist, nice guy, but strangely (or maybe not so strangley) obtuse about Mingus and the jazz world in general - very negative privately (and not so privately) about Mingus, who did punch him in the mouth; however, he did his best work with the bassist -

Jimmy Knepper played great with Mingus, but he was no slouch on his own dates. Those interested might want to check out:

Jimmy Knepper in L.A. (Disco Mate LP - reissued as a Japanese CD on 3D)

Tell Me ... (Daybreak) - "Nearer My God in G", "I Thought About You", "Nearer My God in G"

Dream Dancing (Criss Cross) - "Goodbye", "Of Things Past""

"Hold Back the Dawn" on T-Bop (Soul Note) - co-led w. Eric Felten

Primrose Path (Hep LP) - "What Is There To Say", "Latterday Saint"

[JSngry]

Jimmy Knepper - great great great trombonist, nice guy, but strangely (or maybe not so strangley) obtuse about Mingus and the jazz world in general - very negative privately (and not so privately) about Mingus, who did punch him in the mouth; however, he did his best work with the bassist -

Jimmy Knepper played great with Mingus, but he was no slouch on his own dates. Those interested might want to check out:

Jimmy Knepper in L.A. (Disco Mate LP - reissued as a Japanese CD on 3D)

Tell Me ... (Daybreak) - "Nearer My God in G", "I Thought About You", "Nearer My God in G"

Dream Dancing (Criss Cross) - "Goodbye", "Of Things Past""

"Hold Back the Dawn" on T-Bop (Soul Note) - co-led w. Eric Felten

Primrose Path (Hep LP) - "What Is There To Say", "Latterday Saint"

And don't forget the Bethlehem date (another one for the "Bill Evans w/horns" thread...). Sublime!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Eric Alexander's own dates (I have only three or four) don't greatly appeal to me. But he's appeared on a number of other people's albums often to great effect: Charles Earland; Bob DeVos; Mel Rhyne; Irene Reid etc etc.

MG

[blajay]

Wayne Shorter

[Peter Friedman]

Jimmy Knepper - great great great trombonist, nice guy, but strangely (or maybe not so strangley) obtuse about Mingus and the jazz world in general - very negative privately (and not so privately) about Mingus, who did punch him in the mouth; however, he did his best work with the bassist -

Jimmy Knepper played great with Mingus, but he was no slouch on his own dates. Those interested might want to check out:

Jimmy Knepper in L.A. (Disco Mate LP - reissued as a Japanese CD on 3D)

Tell Me ... (Daybreak) - "Nearer My God in G", "I Thought About You", "Nearer My God in G"

Dream Dancing (Criss Cross) - "Goodbye", "Of Things Past""

"Hold Back the Dawn" on T-Bop (Soul Note) - co-led w. Eric Felten

Primrose Path (Hep LP) - "What Is There To Say", "Latterday Saint"

And don't forget the Bethlehem date (another one for the "Bill Evans w/horns" thread...). Sublime!

There is another damn fine Jimmy Knepper session.

Jimmy Knepper Quintet - Cunningbird - Steeplechase

with Al Cohn, Roland Hanna, George Mraz, Dannie Richmond

Edited December 18, 2008 by Peter Friedman

[Peter Friedman]

Wynton Kelly for me. I only have the OJCs "Kelly Blue" and "Piano" with him as leader, but I don't them play nearly as much as I should, given how much I love his playing.

I strongly agree. Wynton Kelly is at his best with Miles Davis, Hank Mobley and many others as a sideman. His own albums are nice, but not outstanding.