good riddance to record stores ?

[michel1969]

an interesting point of view

[Dan Gould]

The guy is an ass, properly smacked down in the comments to that entry.

[jostber]

It says at the top of the article that A.Kurtz is Jazz.com's resident curmudgeon. He might be able to live up to that if he keeps on like this.

[michel1969]

The guy is an ass,

Basically, yes.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Well, he's got a point. There ARE a lot of shops, staffed by know-nothing, care-not-at-all staff. I can bear the passing of such shops with great fortitude. Good ones will, I think, survive by knowing what they're selling; to whom; and what those people want - same as any other business.

MG

[paul secor]

I just spent an hour and a half in a record store - Sally's in Westport, Ct. - hanging with a friend, checking out CDs and listening to Sally's stories - one of the most enjoyable times I've had recently. Wish there were more record stores these days.

[clifford_thornton]

Kurtz also baits and teases the Bagatellen crowd around his hatred of experimental music.

So there you go.

Fuck jazz.com.

[Jazzmoose]

Well, he's got a point. There ARE a lot of shops, staffed by know-nothing, care-not-at-all staff. I can bear the passing of such shops with great fortitude. Good ones will, I think, survive by knowing what they're selling; to whom; and what those people want - same as any other business.

MG

I have to agree. The best stores I've found (Streetlight Records in the Bay Area comes to mind) must have someone on the staff who knows what they're doing, judging by what I found in the bins, but apparently he or she didn't work there on a daily basis. I certainly never ran into a 'knowledgable sales clerk', and to be honest, wasn't that interested in finding one. The only reason I prefer music stores to online shopping is because I'm an old fart who is used to doing things that way, and because you just can't duplicate the feeling of bin diving on line. I always found much more interesting things by mistake in a store than I ever found on purpose on line...

[A Lark Ascending]

I loved the 35 years I spent trawling round record shops on a Saturday. I did find a few knowledgeable and helpful people working in them - but more often than not they had little specific knowledge.

But I don't bemoan the demise of record shop as it has become in the UK. More a DVD shop with a couple of racks of mixed 'specialist music'. There are a handful of more specialised shops left in the UK (mainly classical) - and I read recently that the chap at Rays has been let go by Foyles. I'm not sure if that means the shop too.

The upside of the revolution for me (apart from the instant availability and cost savings of the new model) is that I no longer spend ages getting to town centres and then spending money on parking, cups of overpriced coffee and impulse buys. I have more time to listen, read, garden etc - and am spending far less money whilst buying much the same amount of music. If I'm typical of the once avid music shopper, then it's no wonder the record stores are dying.

While I can agree with some of the sentiments of the linked article I hate the way it is written - it becomes not so much a consideration of the issue of the end of the record shop as a puff piece for the website. How many records we've reviewed (and how many I've written), how wonderful we are. I'm probably very old and very British but I come from a world where it is for others to tell you how good you are. I've noticed this bragadoccio on other sites too. Might work for selling cornflakes (Kellogg's are the best) but grates in what purports to be a serious article.

[sidewinder]

and I read recently that the chap at Rays has been let go by Foyles. I'm not sure if that means the shop too.

I read that too. What a damn shame ! Paul Pace and his staff were pretty well running the last bastion of independent jazz retailing in London and doing a good job of it I thought, with the interesting CD selection, some good 2nd hand bins and nice coffee shop, indeed one of the most pleasant such emporiums in Central London. Even some vinyl. I've spent pleasurable hours in that particular 'Rays'. Hope it doesn't mean the demise of 'Rays' but the total cynic in me suspects that the jazz will go and the cafe bit will expand. If so, I won't be buying many more over-priced books from Foyles.

Edited November 30, 2008 by sidewinder

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

and I read recently that the chap at Rays has been let go by Foyles. I'm not sure if that means the shop too.

I read that too. What a damn shame ! Paul Pace and his staff were pretty well running the last bastion of independent jazz retailing in London and doing a good job of it I thought, with the interesting CD selection, some good 2nd hand bins and nice coffee shop, indeed one of the most pleasant such emporiums in Central London. Even some vinyl. I've spent pleasurable hours in that particular 'Rays'. Hope it doesn't mean the demise of 'Rays' but the total cynic in me suspects that the jazz will go and the cafe bit will expand. If so, I won't be buying many more over-priced books from Foyles.

That's right - the bookshop business is being hit by Amazon etc on line sales, too. Even second hand shops are coming on as Amazon sellers, if they've got any sense. It's been a while since I visited Hay-on-Wye; perhaps I'll go there in the summer (if we have one next year).

MG

[BillF]

Very sorry to hear Ray's has gone. One of the last survivors! Vinyl Exchange in Manchester is still in existence (used CDs and vinyl, despite the name), but only just, with one of two shops closed and the proprietor having pulled out and sold to management. But I have a sneaking approval of changes that have happened at HMV's Manchester store. In recent years, jazz has been relegated to a corner of the classical section, run by staunch classicists, meaning that those seeking Miles or Basie were compulsorily bathed in surround-sound Verdi. Now everything has been cleared to make way for more DVDs and games and the one-time classical kings make a sorry sight relegated (together with jazz, unfortunately) to a noisy corner of the pop section, where they're subjected to a non-stop high-volume diet of chart hits! Poetic justice?

[A Lark Ascending]

Very sorry to hear Ray's has gone. One of the last survivors! Vinyl Exchange in Manchester is still in existence (used CDs and vinyl, despite the name), but only just, with one of two shops closed and the proprietor having pulled out and sold to management. But I have a sneaking approval of changes that have happened at HMV's Manchester store. In recent years, jazz has been relegated to a corner of the classical section, run by staunch classicists, meaning that those seeking Miles or Basie were compulsorily bathed in surround-sound Verdi. Now everything has been cleared to make way for more DVDs and games and the one-time classical kings make a sorry sight relegated (together with jazz, unfortunately) to a noisy corner of the pop section, where they're subjected to a non-stop high-volume diet of chart hits! Poetic justice?

Ha! They were clearly following the example of BBC Radio 3! Surprised they didn't have restricted opening hours on the jazz section, limited to late at night!

However much we may regret the passing of a way of delivering recordings that has been part of our lives for a long time, I'd say the new model is far more conducive to diversity and specialist interest.

[michel1969]

Last year i was in Paris, looking for some Weldon Irvine records in CD. I asked for them to the owner of a shop where i regularly buy soul/ funk/ jazz CD's. (He's a knowledgeable seller : i've already bought many records from him, following his advice, and was rarely disapointed. And he sells fine vinyl, too). There was no Weldon Irvine CD in the bins. The guy looked at his computer screen and told me : i can order them for you...let's see...the price will be 15 €...no... let's say 13 € each, add 3 € for shipping to your location. I was about about to say "okay, let's go, please order for me", when, by changing my angle of view, i noticed that the guy was actually browsing Ebay shops listings.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Coo! Cheeky!

MG

[Big Beat Steve]

Too bad about Ray's. I haven't been to London in recent years (the last time I was there Ray's still were over on Shaftesbury Avenue and Mole still existed) but if even Ray's now is on its way out that will probably have been it as far as real store shopping is concerned. Too bad for a world metropole like this.

Can't complain about brick-and-mortar store shopping in Paris, though. At least not as far as CDs are concerned. Joseph Gibert is chaotic in the huge secondhand department but worth combing through, Paris Jazz Corner (which still has quite a bit of vinyl) and Crocojazz are still holding out (and there are a few other specialist shops too), and even the jazz and blues departments at some of the FNAC store chain are worth a visit.

For the time being, I'll keep scouring the special Jazz offer bins at the one large secondhand record store remaining in town but I wonder what will happen with this one when the building block where this one is located comes up for urban redevelopment sometime in 2010.

[michel1969]

T Joseph Gibert is chaotic in the huge secondhand department but worth combing through,.

...And sometimes it is really a goldmine....Everytime i shop at Gibert's second hand department, i wonder : " how can one can get rid of this ! and this ! and this ! and this ! . ? "

[jostber]

Is there a reason why we don't like these kind of curmudgeons? Let him be happy with his compressed MP3s on his crappy sounding headphones while he is reading the latest celebrity news, and keep him out of the music scene.

[captainwrong]

Recently, the biggest used vinyl store in town folded. This is a place I've been shopping at for 20+ years (and a half dozen locations.) I discovered a lot of good music there over the years. But, when I got right down to it, my visits there had slowed down considerably in the last 5 years. While I always appreciated having a local store like that, it had gotten harder to find anything good there. Part of that was increased competition, but most of it had to do with the store owner posting all the really good stuff straight to eBay. The leftovers weren't exactly special to begin with and the prices seemed to keep going up (including one time when the owner let me paw through a partially priced stack and I literally watched the prices go up before my eyes!) Not to mention the quality control was going way down. I'd see scratchy 45s with no sleeve priced at $20, just waiting for a wannabe beat digger who didn't know any better, LPs that should have been left in the dank basement they came from, etc., etc.

While it's easy to blame mp3s for the demise of records stores, in my expirence a lot of store owners have changed their own priorities. About ten years ago, several around here went to eBay, first for a few things, then permanently. Others just stopped caring like the one I mentioned above. We still have a few record shops in town, but I still feel the cream of the crop is going to eBay (I know their seller IDs.) I can get new stuff easily, but anything used, outlook not so good. Can't say I blame them. I've done my share of eBay shopping too. It's kind of a chicken or the egg situation. Did store owners turn to eBay because that's where people like me shopped? Or did people like me go to eBay because that's where the stores were putting their best stuff?

Not to mention the fact that it's easily been 10 years since I've been in one of these mythical record stores where the staff is knowledgeable about a wide variety of music and helpful to a fault. All too many shops I've been in are staffed by hipsters with rock critic tastes. I long ago gave up on walking in a store and blindly buying the clerk's suggestion.

So, I can see this isn't a popular opinion, but I kind of see where this guy is coming from. If you have a store you like, well, color me jealous. Don't get me wrong, we have two good stores left, but neither are truly great record stores like the kind I used to go to. While I wish neither of their purveyors ill will, both could close and, as long as there's still the Internet, it wouldn't change my day too much.

[Ken Dryden]

Everyone who owns a brick and mortar record store has bills to pay and if he can get $50 for a used jazz LP on ebay before he even puts it on the shelf, more power too him. Some store owners make occasional road trips of several hundred miles to buy entire collections, but I imagine that is even slowing down somewhat, leading to less quality title available in great shape.

I imagine collectors that previously sold or traded in old vinyl have also discovered ebay, though I've never had any luck selling LPs at auction. There are also too many people who waste time by asking for the unlisted reserve price or fail to read restrictions (not shipping to a p.o. box, overseas, etc.).

[GregK]

I'm thankful for Encore Recordings in Ann Arbor. I was shocked and speechless when I recently brought Anthony Braxton/Matt Bauder 2+2 Compositions up to the counter to buy and the guy at the counter (who looked maybe 25 at the most) not only was aware of who the artist was, but also mentioned that he knew Bauder and another person on the record (can't remember which one it was now) when they lived in Ann Arbor, and of course he highly recommended the CD! You don't get that on ebay.

[captainwrong]

Everyone who owns a brick and mortar record store has bills to pay and if he can get $50 for a used jazz LP on ebay before he even puts it on the shelf, more power too him.

Absolutely. That's what did in my all time favorite shop and I didn't blame the guy one bit for cutting his overhead and going the eBay route. But the flipside is, for the shops left, if I'm looking for used stuff, it doesn't give me much incentive to come in if I know they're putting anything I'd want on eBay.

[porcy62]

We have some pros and some versus, though not the ones of the article's writer.

I admit I got wonderful vinyls (mainly) from all over the world thanks to internet, stuff I had never encounter in my weekly hunting in italian shops. But I got lots of great suggestions too from knowledgable clerks, and walking in the neighbourhood, get a coffe with music obsessed people and digging into 0,99 bins for bizarre records or the weekly incoming of some big guns or cheap used cd of obscure labels was just a perfect day I am spending with me.

[Shrdlu]

I too have many happy memories of hours in record stores, going back to the early 60s. Even Australia had some excellent stores back then. Those were the days when BN and Impulse LPs were new - very exciting.

But, hardly noticing it really, I have just about completely stopped going into stores. My local Borders, for example, has obviously never had staff that know anything about jazz.

I think a lot of us simply have all that we want now, especially where classic era jazz goes.

[Chuck Nessa]

I too have many happy memories of hours in record stores, going back to the early 60s. Even Australia had some excellent stores back then. Those were the days when BN and Impulse LPs were new - very exciting.

But, hardly noticing it really, I have just about completely stopped going into stores. My local Borders, for example, has obviously never had staff that know anything about jazz.

I think a lot of us simply have all that we want now, especially where classic era jazz goes.

Must be the end of days.