Jazz is the philosophers stone of new "indie rock"

[papsrus]

Well, it was entirely coincidental that about the time I started posting here regularly, my listening interests were in the process of shifting from contemporary artists to older recordings. For quite some time my listening consisted largely of contemporary free and downtown artists such as Melford, Dave Douglas, Berne, Michael Moore, Dennis Gonzalez and the like. I gobbled the stuff up at a gluttonous pace and have more than a couple of Clean Feeds on the shelf.

But it was a bit like jumping into a Porsche with a learner's permit. I wanted/needed to learn about, and listen to, the roots of this music, and so began to travel back in time.

But I certainly haven't lost interest in modern music. And while I haven't purchased a lot of new releases this year (for the first year in a while), contemporary releases (music recorded in the past few years) do account for about 30 percent of my listening these days. So I, too, would like to know more about the musicians mentioned by the original poster. I am familiar with the Chicago Underground Trio/Quartet and Jeff Parker. The others, I'm not at all familiar with.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I find it ironic that a board that produces a 5 page thread about 40-50 year old Blue Note recordings losing their charm is so quick to dismiss this thread.

Which four more pages than the Best of 2008 Jazz list thread.

While the op's writing style is very awkward it does seem strange that on a Jazz Discussion Forum their aren't a lot of people that support new Jazz artists. Seems to be more bashing of anybody that gets any type of positive press/ promotion than support. I know that isn't entirely true but it seems that way here sometimes.

And four more pages than the thread about organissimo's videos on YouTube... you know, the band that actually owns this board.

I have been frustrated by the lack of discussion of new artists on this board for years. What I have found is that younger people are generally more open to cross-pollination of musical ideas than older jazz fans, which is ironic considering jazz is supposed to be "free" and "expressive" and all that.

Before anyone gets defensive, I'm not singling out anyone here. Just a general observation from being in the trenches, so to speak.

You wait 'til you're sixty-five, young man. Then read that post again.

MG

[Hot Ptah]

I find it ironic that a board that produces a 5 page thread about 40-50 year old Blue Note recordings losing their charm is so quick to dismiss this thread.

Which four more pages than the Best of 2008 Jazz list thread.

While the op's writing style is very awkward it does seem strange that on a Jazz Discussion Forum their aren't a lot of people that support new Jazz artists. Seems to be more bashing of anybody that gets any type of positive press/ promotion than support. I know that isn't entirely true but it seems that way here sometimes.

And four more pages than the thread about organissimo's videos on YouTube... you know, the band that actually owns this board.

I have been frustrated by the lack of discussion of new artists on this board for years. What I have found is that younger people are generally more open to cross-pollination of musical ideas than older jazz fans, which is ironic considering jazz is supposed to be "free" and "expressive" and all that.

Before anyone gets defensive, I'm not singling out anyone here. Just a general observation from being in the trenches, so to speak.

I agree with what you are saying. I am surprised that we have many pages of discussion about old Beatles albums, but virtually no discussion about jazz albums which have been released this year, or about new jazz artists or styles.

I posted two album covers. They are both several years old now. "Drab Zeen" is a release by a saxophonist from Lebanon, and is a mixture of jazz, music from the Middle East, and light touches of hip hop and electronica. "Inner Space/Outer Space" features a jazz combo playing along with intricate electronic sounds, which often sound so much like real instruments that I strain to tell the difference. To my older ears, these albums are fresh, have newer approaches, and are enjoyable and full of substance. I would like to get the impressions of other members of the board about these albums. If I found them, they must not be very difficult to find, because I am hardly on the cutting edge of anything going on in music today.

[Aggie87]

I don't think alot of folks here are opposed to listening to new, up and coming music at all. I do think most of us don't care for spam though, and I still see this original post as spam.

We are all at different points in our listening lives. Some of us only like one era of jazz, others are all over the place, and still others don't post alot about jazz (or music) at all here, whether it's all they listen to or not. Many of us originally came from another board where the thing that united us was talking about classic jazz, which generally meant 50's-60's stuff. Some prefer to stick with that, as it's the music they've loved for most of their lives. Others are just discovering jazz, which typically means that era's a starting point, before people branch out and explore what came before and what's come afterwards. It's impossible to classify everyone here as being at the same point in their musical journeys.

I can understand getting frustrated by the relative lack of discussion about newer music though. There are often comments in Mehldau threads about him being good, but no Bill Evans. Comments in Frisell or Scofield threads about them not holding a candle to Wes, Grant Green, etc. And these guys aren't even new, but well established!

[Larry Kart]

And four more pages than the thread about organissimo's videos on YouTube... you know, the band that actually owns this board.

I have been frustrated by the lack of discussion of new artists on this board for years. What I have found is that younger people are generally more open to cross-pollination of musical ideas than older jazz fans, which is ironic considering jazz is supposed to be "free" and "expressive" and all that.

Before anyone gets defensive, I'm not singling out anyone here. Just a general observation from being in the trenches, so to speak.

Well, I'm 66, and since maybe 2001, the music I choose to go out and listen to (usually at least once a week, sometimes much more than that) is mostly the stuff that the younger Chicago-area musicians are playing -- often avant-gardish to some degree I'd say, but typically not in ways that would leave many here scratching their heads. I know, why haven't I been writing/reporting here all the time about what I've been hearing? I have done that some times, but I think I don't more often because most of the people I'd be writing about are people who also are to some degree friends (and not only friends but also, because of the gap in age, almost sons and daughters), and I don't want to be writing about my friends in public anymore, for a whole lot of reasons -- some of which I understand, some of which I don't. Maybe I'll get past that, though, whatever "that" is.

[AllenLowe]

I hunger for new music, problem is acquiring it and/or listening to it - sometimes too much of an investment if it turns out to be lousy, as most new music is - maybe we could create a "listen to this" thread with access to listening posts of a selected group - than we can have a common frame of reference -

[Hot Ptah]

And four more pages than the thread about organissimo's videos on YouTube... you know, the band that actually owns this board.

I have been frustrated by the lack of discussion of new artists on this board for years. What I have found is that younger people are generally more open to cross-pollination of musical ideas than older jazz fans, which is ironic considering jazz is supposed to be "free" and "expressive" and all that.

Before anyone gets defensive, I'm not singling out anyone here. Just a general observation from being in the trenches, so to speak.

Well, I'm 66, and since maybe 2001, the music I choose to go out and listen to (usually at least once a week, sometimes much more than that) is mostly the stuff that the younger Chicago-area musicians are playing -- often avant-gardish to some degree I'd say, but typically not in ways that would leave many here scratching their heads. I know, why haven't I been writing/reporting here all the time about what I've been hearing? I have done that some times, but I think I don't more often because most of the people I'd be writing about are people who also are to some degree friends (and not only friends but also, because of the gap in age, almost sons and daughters), and I don't want to be writing about my friends in public anymore, for a whole lot of reasons -- some of which I understand, some of which I don't. Maybe I'll get past that, though, whatever "that" is.

Larry, your thoughts on this new music would be very much welcome. If you would write only that Group A is really worth hearing, that would lead me to check them out. If you do not want to write about details or specifics about your friends, just your mention of their names is enough recommendation for me.

[Hot Ptah]

I hunger for new music, problem is acquiring it and/or listening to it - sometimes too much of an investment if it turns out to be lousy, as most new music is - maybe we could create a "listen to this" thread with access to listening posts of a selected group - than we can have a common frame of reference -

Great idea!

I used to get information about new music at Recycled Sounds in Kansas City, from Ann Winter, the owner. While the store was doing well financially, she closed it a few years ago. One of the reasons she gave to the newspaper reporter is that she was tired of listening to so much poor music, in her efforts to remain current. So I think that Allen's idea has real merit.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Hot Ptah

[papsrus]

And four more pages than the thread about organissimo's videos on YouTube... you know, the band that actually owns this board.

I have been frustrated by the lack of discussion of new artists on this board for years. What I have found is that younger people are generally more open to cross-pollination of musical ideas than older jazz fans, which is ironic considering jazz is supposed to be "free" and "expressive" and all that.

Before anyone gets defensive, I'm not singling out anyone here. Just a general observation from being in the trenches, so to speak.

Well, I'm 66, and since maybe 2001, the music I choose to go out and listen to (usually at least once a week, sometimes much more than that) is mostly the stuff that the younger Chicago-area musicians are playing -- often avant-gardish to some degree I'd say, but typically not in ways that would leave many here scratching their heads. I know, why haven't I been writing/reporting here all the time about what I've been hearing? I have done that some times, but I think I don't more often because most of the people I'd be writing about are people who also are to some degree friends (and not only friends but also, because of the gap in age, almost sons and daughters), and I don't want to be writing about my friends in public anymore, for a whole lot of reasons -- some of which I understand, some of which I don't. Maybe I'll get past that, though, whatever "that" is.

Larry, your thoughts on this new music would be very much welcome. If you would write only that Group A is really worth hearing, that would lead me to check them out. If you do not want to write about details or specifics about your friends, just your mention of their names is enough recommendation for me.

Agreed.

I hunger for new music, problem is acquiring it and/or listening to it - sometimes too much of an investment if it turns out to be lousy, as most new music is - maybe we could create a "listen to this" thread with access to listening posts of a selected group - than we can have a common frame of reference -

Great idea!

I used to get information about new music at Recycled Sounds in Kansas City, from Ann Winter, the owner. While the store was doing well financially, she closed it a few years ago. One of the reasons she gave to the newspaper reporter is that she was tired of listening to so much poor music, in her efforts to remain current. So I think that Allen's idea has real merit.

Agreed. I was toying a while back with the idea of a thread along the lines of "If You Like X, You'll Probably Like Y" as a way to generate some leads. Sniffing around here in a haphazard way is useful but a dedicated thread would cut the legwork down.

Edited November 20, 2008 by papsrus

[.:.impossible]

There's an entire forum called Recommendations!

[Larry Kart]

There's an entire forum called Recommendations!

I'm going to try to be more conscientious and file some reports. If things go according to plan, I'll be catching guitarist Matt Schneider (solo set, I think), and cornetist Josh Berman's quartet (Keefe Jackson, reeds; Jason Roebke, bass; Marc Riordan, drums) tonight.

[Van Basten II]

I've noticed that when we start a thread about contemporary musicians, the only way we get a multi page thread it is because it becomes a bash fest à la Joshua Redman, There was recently a thread about Sylvie Courvoisier that went nowhere fast, can't say that the one about David Binney lasted long either and a recommendation thread i start about Sakoto Fujii as i was trying to buy recordings of her never got answered.

I can understand people being more interested into the classic years but still ...

Edited November 21, 2008 by Van Basten II

[Uncle Skid]

Hmmm, I disagree with that, Van Basten. Somewhere around here, there's a multi-page thread on Vijay Iyer and Rudresh Mahanthappa, which are two of my favorite "contemporary" musicians. Also, I recall a fairly long thread about Keefe Jackson's records, which (IIRC), Larry started. Reptet's latest release is outstanding, and it gets lots of love here. It's not always a bash fest.

Oh, and y'all need to listen to impossible -- that Fight the Big Bull release on Clean Feed is pretty damn good!

[.:.impossible]

Hey! Thanks! You'll be glad to hear that they are making a follow-up with Steven Bernstein this winter. They decided to scrap tapes with Vandermark due to lack of rehersal. I guess it just didn't work in the end.

Looking forward to reading more about Matt Schneider from you Larry. You have piqued my interested recently.

[RDK]

I've noticed that when we start a thread about contemporary musicians, the only way we get a multi page thread it is because it becomes a bash fest à la Joshua Redman, There was recently a thread about Sylvie Courvoisier that went nowhere fast, can't say that the one about David Binney lasted long either and a recommendation thread i start about Sakoto Fujii as i was trying to buy recordings of her never got answered.

I can understand people being more interested into the classic years but still ...

It's hard. I mean, I like Joshua Redman, but once people (mostly people more knowledgable about such things than me) pile on and bash someone like Josh, it's difficult to answer back intelligently. As for the others you mention, while I might recognize the names I can't say I'm familiar with their music. The "problem" in discussing newer, more contemporary artists is that, well, they simply haven't been around long enough for many of us to know them. That said, I've followed up on a few recommendations from here that have turned me onto some terrific artists/albums that I would never otherwise have heard of, two of them being Sam Keevers and Malcolm Braff.

[AllenLowe]

well, I'll repeat my suggestion - a thread or a location where we can go to hear the stuff, maybe one band at a time - for example, my web site has quite a few listening samples - a link is all we need. But when there are 18 threads or 18 bands or 18 ideas of who to listen to, I tend to walk away as I just do not have time - maybe one person with technical skills could run the thread, posting a band's stuff every week - make it direct and simple, we can all listen, and THAN we can all trash it -

Edited November 21, 2008 by AllenLowe

[Hot Ptah]

Or not trash it.

Someone with technical skills is not me. I hope someone steps forward to do this.

[Larry Kart]

Went to hear Josh Berman and Matt Schneider last night; unfortunately, Schneider had severely broken a leg in several places several weeks ago while skate-boarding (these are the problems when you've got a scene full of younger musicians) and couldn't make it. Waited around for Berman's set and was richly rewarded. Josh, when he saw me, jokingly said something like, "Oh, no, we're going to play 'free' tonight" -- meaning that his normal bands are less this way, that there would be more chances of error or outright failure this way, and therefore I shouldn't be there to witness it, also that (as it turned it) these four particular guys (, Josh, Keefe Jackson, Jason Roebke, Marc Riordan) had never played as a group, though they'd all played before with each other, along with others, in some cases many times -- Keefe is Josh's most frequent musical partner.

Josh, BTW, was my door to this scene. Met him around 2000 or so when he was working at the JRM and became bemused by how much stuff he'd listened to at his young age (then mid-to-late 20s). Almost nothing could come up that he hadn't heard and had knowledgable things to say about -- and I've got an almost 40-year head start on him. I knew he played the trumpet (later the cornet), had studied with Brad Goode and a CSO player-teacher, but I'd never heard him play. Then he mentioned that he had an upcoming gig with a quartet (altoist Aram Shelton, drummer Dave Williams, bassist Brian Dibblee) at a an Uptown coffee house. I felt I had to go but wondered what I'd say if I thought they weren't very good -- though I did know Williams and Dibblee from their work in some fairly straightahead settings, and they certainly could play.

In any case, that band was openly Ornettish -- playing actual Ornette tunes and originals in that vein -- and while Shelton clearly was the further along player, what Josh was doing was very interesting. His key models, as he would freely admit, were this unlikely trio: Don Cherry, Ruby Braff, and Tony Fruscella. He loved the lower register and ... I was going to say "bent" notes but -- and this taste has persisted over time and become much more under control and less decorative -- they're more like "shaped" or "cupped" notes, in that what's involved is mostly not an outright change in pitch but a flowing change in timbre within the note, this usually achieved without the use of mute, plunger, etc. and to the point where the change in timbre is almost where one might say the "melody" is, or that the actual melody and this auxiliary and times almost contrapuntal melody of timbral shifts coexist.

On the other hand, at this point, Josh's phrases tended to be fairly short and "abstract" -- in both cases, though they fit the style of the music they were playing, one wondered whether it was also that he HAD to play that way. Over time, the latter probably proved to be the case; after he bought a lovely cornet, which fit what was he was going for like magic, and began to practice a good deal harder, I think, and play in public more frequently, the phrases began to link up and his overall command of the instrument became unquestionable -- in terms of facility and range, in particular.

Now I'd been around a good bit during the early days of the AACM, later been a big fan of the Hal Russell Ensemble, but after Hal's death my contact with the local avant-gardish scene had kind of withered away, as perhaps the scene itself had to some degree -- I can't say for sure because I was kind of elsewhere, in part because in the late '80s I left my newspaper reviewing gig and became an editor in the paper's Books section, eventually the editor of that section, which was a very demanding, time-consuming job (but great fun).

When the whole Vandermark thing began and was up and running for a while, I went to some of his things and realized right off that I wasn't, and probably never would be, a fan -- though clearly some of the guys he was working with (e.g. trombonist Jeb Bishop, reedman Dave Rempis) were impressive players. The whole Tortoise, et al. alt-rock thing, and the Chicago Underground Duo/Trio thing I came to know only from recordings -- Rob Mazurek I think was just about to leave town, if he hadn't already left, when I began to go out to hear a lot things, but I have heard a fair amount of Jeff Parker in-person since then and some Chad Taylor (who also left town).

So after hearing Josh's quartet at that coffee house in 2000 or 2001 (I have a privately pressed CD that band made and am holding it for ransom), I began to go to all sorts of things in that seemingly ever-widening circle of youngish players (terrific players have flowed in from other cities and regions with regularity and generally have stayed) and became aware that this was a scene the likes of which I hadn't witnessed since, again, the vintage days of the AACM.

Terry Martin BTW has jokingly/tartly referred to these players as the New Austin High Gang, implying that their relationship to the music of the vintage AACM is analogous to the relationship between the original Austin High Gang and King Oliver-Louis Armstrong, both in terms of race and influence. This I feel, and Terry now I think mostly agrees, is an amusing line but not really accurate -- there is knowledge of and fondness for the vintage AACM here, of course, and contact with the current AACM, but these players collectively come from a whole lot of other places as well; I hear, for one, at times a whole lot of wisely and utterly assimilated Morton Feldman, an understanding of exactly what Feldman meant when he said to Stockhausen that his (i.e. Feldman's) "secret" was that "I don't push the sounds around." (Stockhausen's plaintive response, according to Morty was, "Not even a little bit?")

Getting back to last night's music -- it was free in that it was not pre-planned, but given that, the goal was not to determinedly stay "free" or "out" (if you will) at all times but to allow whatever form-making impulses that were or might be present to emerge -- passages of fairly straight swinging "time" were possible, as well as the feeling that a collective "tune with changes" feeling had been arrived at for a while. (I should add that the one constant on this scene is that everyone in every group that's any good tries to think and act "compositionally." The actual sounds that result can be stylistically quite diverse, but it's such an important, constant thing that it almost takes its absence where you expect it to be to remind you of how rich that constant compositional feel is it is and how much it matters. For instance, a very talented, fairly well-known, mid-40ish rhythm section player settled in the area a few years ago; he began to play on the scene a lot, but his approach was pretty clearly "I am the virtuoso," which he pretty much was. To my mind, he stuck out like a sore thumb at first, as gifted as he was, but over time he got the "compositional" thing, which was weird in a way because he came from a scene in another major city where one had thought that was in the air too --but no, or not nearly as much.

Keefe Jackson (originally from Arkansas) got to me the first time I heard him, maybe back in 2002, when he was regarded by some local mavens as a second-line or even a third-line figure who probably would just stay there. I thought he had some problems in terms of sound -- he just didn't seem to make the horn vibrate as much I thought he should (this was out of then-prevailing temperamental diffidence , I believe, rather than lack of ability) -- but what I think of as his gifts as a shape-maker and his unquenchable in-the-momentness (in both respects he reminds me of "Sound"-vintage Kalaparusha/Maurice McIntyre) -- convinced me that he had great promise and was damn good right then. As it happens, Keefe's sound last night on both tenor and bass clarinet was as rich as I've think I've ever heard from him; he filled the room with overtones without the least sense of strain, and Elastic is a fairly "dry" space. Also, his rapport with Josh, and Josh's with him, is just ... I was going to say "uncanny," but I've heard it often enough that I can't say that; how about "canny"?

Roebke's stylistic flexibility and spontaneity within whatever might be going on is pretty amazing; in Mike Reed's People, Places and Things, for example he plays some of the hardest-walking time this side of the late George Tucker; here he can lay out for considerable stretches, thinking about where and how to come in, and then just surprise the crap out of you by how he swoops in what he decides to do once he lands. Also, he's got such a lovely, big sound, with a lot of useful "pluck" to it.

Drummer Marc Riordan is one of the scene's many emigrees, from the Boston area, and he just fascinates me with the essentially cool, contained, crisp aptness of everything he does -- and I've heard him in lots of settings, from straightahead cooking things, to a neo-Bill Evans trio, to free, to my son's singer-songwriter band Medium Sized Rabbit, which is not that far from Sam Prekop territory. Riordan (who's also one heck of a piano player) sounds like himself, but I think I can hear in him a fondness for Tony Williams, Roy Haynes (the crispness), and Joe Chambers -- Chambers' sort of compositional "cool" in particular.

One odd thing is that while I don't often like to look at anyone while they're playing -- in part because I hear better with my eyes closed, in part because it can be distracting when you think you're seeing one thing and are hearing another -- Riordan, more than any modern drummer I can think of, makes no move that doesn't correspond precisely to what you hear. In part that's because he's not a big person and doesn't have long arms, thus he stays quite centered and physically economical amid his kit. I imagine that Baby Dodds also might have had that "what you see is just what you get" quality. By contrast, the marvelous Frank Rosaly may be the most "what you see may not be at all what you hear" drummer I've ever encountered -- and Frank is marvelous.

So that's a bit of what last night was like, with some context thrown in.

BTW, if anyone thinks this ought to be in another slot, like "Recommendations" or "Live Shows," tell me and I'll think about moving it.

[ghost of miles]

Thanks for that great write-up, Larry. I'm a big Josh-and-Keefe fan, as you know, so much appreciation for all of your insight into their approaches.

[Hot Ptah]

Thank you so much for that post, Larry. I am rereading it and find it fascinating. I have not heard of these musicians. I don't care where you post this material, as long as you keep on posting it!

[papsrus]

Thank you for the insights. Great review. This in particular caught my attention:

Getting back to last night's music -- it was free in that it was not pre-planned, but given that, the goal was not to determinedly stay "free" or "out" (if you will) at all times but to allow whatever form-making impulses that were or might be present to emerge -- passages of fairly straight swinging "time" were possible, as well as the feeling that a collective "tune with changes" feeling had been arrived at for a while. (I should add that the one constant on this scene is that everyone in every group that's any good tries to think and act "compositionally." The actual sounds that result can be stylistically quite diverse, but it's such an important, constant thing that it almost takes its absence where you expect it to be to remind you of how rich that constant compositional feel is it is and how much it matters.

This is exactly the sweet spot for me in new music -- free playing that hangs on a kind of structure which allows for, and embraces, melody and rhythm; it swings! Total free playing that wanders too far into that micro-tonal or, alternately, angry screaming territory and abandons any pretense at melody and rhythm is just too damn taxing to listen to. IMO.

You've put some flesh on the bone with your thoughts. Thanks.

[A Lark Ascending]

I've noticed that when we start a thread about contemporary musicians, the only way we get a multi page thread it is because it becomes a bash fest à la Joshua Redman, There was recently a thread about Sylvie Courvoisier that went nowhere fast, can't say that the one about David Binney lasted long either and a recommendation thread i start about Sakoto Fujii as i was trying to buy recordings of her never got answered.

I can understand people being more interested into the classic years but still ...

Sylvie Courvoisier is neither a 'classic' jazz musician, nor is she American. Not much hope!

People will post about what enthuses them. Nothing to complain about there. But I am surprised that the threads on non-US musicians evoke so little curiosity from hard core jazz listeners who are clearly well attuned to looking beyond the ends of their noses.

On the 'classic' jazz issue, it's hardly surprising you get more commentary there. So much has already been written about these musicians that their place in the inner sanctum is quite safe. We might disagree on how close to the altar they should be placed but when we declare our love of Ellington or 'Bird' (sic) or Coltrane or Beiderbecke we know that we're going to be pretty safe.

Declaring an enthusiasm for a newer atist is much riskier - their story is far from codified and we might just end up backing someone who the critics choose to tear apart (see the Redman/Mehldau spats earlier this year...and they are pretty established).

Much safer to focus on the 'masters'.

[blajay]

well, I'll repeat my suggestion - a thread or a location where we can go to hear the stuff, maybe one band at a time - for example, my web site has quite a few listening samples - a link is all we need. But when there are 18 threads or 18 bands or 18 ideas of who to listen to, I tend to walk away as I just do not have time - maybe one person with technical skills could run the thread, posting a band's stuff every week - make it direct and simple, we can all listen, and THAN we can all trash it -

and thEn we can all trash it! I know this is obnoxious, but it has been killing me thread after thread.

[porcy62]

I am not a musician nor a musical critic, imho both HAVE TO know and discover what's going on, so I admit I am not really into new stuff.

I accumulated so much music in 30 years. It's all on the shelves and I know only a part of it, a small part, I mean you don't really 'know' a record after a couple of spins, don't you?

So I don't buy/listen new stuff, I just dig into my collection. For instance I listened to Mozart's Don Giovanni, my dad's heritage, from side one to side six for the first time in my life, and it takes a whole afternoon for that, and I just scratched the surface of it. I don't 'know' Mozart's Don Giovanni, I just listened to it.

I listened to my african music collection lately, looking for the soudtrack of a documentary I edited, well, there were cds I completely forgot I own.

The last new record I bought is 'Groovadelphia', and it's the only one issued in 2008.

[rockefeller center]

But I am surprised that the threads on non-US musicians evoke so little curiosity from hard core jazz listeners who are clearly well attuned to looking beyond the ends of their noses.

That's some real nice sarcasm there, Bev.