wolff Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 laminated cover of McLean's Blue Note LP "One Step Beyond"(4137). All I've seen is a thin, non-laminated one with the original New York USA label LP. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 I bought this the day it was issued. No laminated cover. Damn, I hate this collector shit. Quote
wolff Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Posted October 30, 2003 Damn, I hate this collector shit Why? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Damn, I hate this collector shit Why? It is supposed to be about music. Secondarily, much of "collector lore" is false. If these guys knew minimal stuff about the way record companies operate(d) and the practices of pressing plants, many prices would be "adjusted". Much of the "collector lore" is a joke. What if after 120 pressings the stampers broke, the plant faulted the mothers, and requested a new mastering? Is number 121 a better or worse pressing. If they printed 2000 covers and labels and used them up. What if.... What if the first set of stampers is used way beyond reason. What if..... What if on the first day of production, things are slow at the plant and they make 10 sets of stampers and use them all to keep the staff working? I can keep the variations going for hours. Why do some pressings have a deep groove on only one side? Why might a pressing only have an ear on one side? How is a stamper with an ear better than one without, made on the same day in the same bath? What is a bath? Quote
wolff Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Posted October 30, 2003 I think it can be about both..music and collecting, as I'm sure many of the members who only buy ceedees can attest to. This is also the vinyl forum, not limited to music only. Oh, thanks for answering my question. Feel free to ignore similar questions I post in the future. I do like the music on this LP. Quote
Brandon Burke Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Yes, it is a very very nice record, wolff. As for this collector business, I began collecting records when I outgrew baseball cards. (Hey, you gotta have something, right.) This was probaly right around high school. Interesting how similar yet completely different the two pursuits are. For starters, with bb cards you're not dealing with someone's art -- at least in the strictest sense. The differences to me are mostly ethical and in accordance with my own belief system regarding personal expression, the beauty of communal creation, etc. That said, I've been known to collect and LP or two. Quote
wolff Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Posted October 30, 2003 Most vinyl I buy is for the music..say 80%(Classic and Sundazed and Japanese re-issues, etc.). The other 20% is to add to a run(Blue Note, Prestige, etc..), but if I like the music I listen to it and enjoy it. I've bought them to resell at a profit. I've bought them to have extra copies(5 pressings of KOB). I've bought a certain pressing because it sounds much better than the others and therefore I enjoy the music more(Classic's and Acoustic Sounds 45rpm jazz re-issues). I've upgraded my stereo to hear them better. I've stuck with vinyl because I enjoy the music more via it's grooves. Anyway, I wish "One Step Beyond" had a thick laminated cover, because I likes 'em better. Aren't they beautiful? Quote
Jazzmoose Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 What is a bath? I can answer that one, Chuck: that's what collectors usually take when it comes time to sell the collection... Quote
Brandon Burke Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Most vinyl I buy is for the music..say 80%(Classic and Sundazed and Japanese re-issues, etc.). The other 20% is to add to a run(Blue Note, Prestige, etc..), but if I like the music I listen to it and enjoy it. I've bought them to resell at a profit. I've bought them to have extra copies(5 pressings of KOB). I've bought a certain pressing because it sounds much better than the others and therefore I enjoy the music more(Classic's and Acoustic Sounds 45rpm jazz re-issues). I've upgraded my stereo to hear them better. I've stuck with vinyl because I enjoy the music more via it's grooves. Anyway, I wish "One Step Beyond" had a thick laminated cover, because I likes 'em better. Aren't they beautiful? I hear you, man. And I'm largely with you. I have four copies of Out to Lunch. On the other hand, I do understand Chuck's point. It's just one of those things. In other words, 'art as a commodity' is a tough thing to grapple with from all directions: as artist, as publisher, as buyer, as dealer, etc. I try to make up for it in the following way. There are a number of records I buy when I see them used with the sole purpose of giving them away to people that I think would like them. It's a simple pleasure but often those are the best kind...... Quote
sidewinder Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) I also hear what you say about these original NYC issues and the laminated covers. Yes, the music always comes first but there's a very great pleasure to be had from playing these original vinyls on a decent system. The music simply comes to life and there's tangible extra depth ! I can also relate to what you say about the laminated covers. I remember picking up Horace Silver's 'Tokyo Blues' with the lamination. One of Horaces coolest covers in any case but just wonderful in the laminated form, a priviledge to own the thing. Almost a work of art. 'One Step Beyond' is great - still sounds fresh today, superbly recorded. I have the King pressing and this sounds pretty nice too. Edited October 30, 2003 by sidewinder Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 I'm with Chuck on this one. It's about the music. Period. IMHO. Quote
desertblues Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 HMMM.....it is entirely possible to be a collector and love the music too, I've been doing both for quite a few years now! Sometimes being a collector makes you love the music even more-for example, I'm still amazed at how much better certain early pressings sound compared to cds and reissues. A recent aquisition of an original mono copy of "Idle Moments" is a perfect case in point. I would not have sought this copy out (or paid more than 10 bucks for it) if I was not a collector. Quote
undergroundagent Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Collecting vinyl nearly made me broke! It was fun buying and trading, but, ultimately, I found I was taking away from the music. Towards the end, I had bought so much that I just didn't have anough time to listen to any of it. Add to the fact that my girlfriend is anti-music buying, and this created plenty of tension in my household. Hence, I decided to sell everything off. While the majority of it was funk/soul/80s rap LPs, there was a large majority of them that were worth ALOT of money. I don't regret it, however, since I've found much of the stuff on CD again. Still, I find listening to LPS like listening to box sets — tiring. Quote
Jazzmoose Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Still, I find listening to LPS like listening to box sets — tiring. Interesting. I find that with vinyl, I'm more involved with the music. That is, I'm more likely to be engaged in active rather than passive listening. A twenty minute album side is just about right for my attention span; then I can either flip the disc or grab something else. With CDs I'm more than likely to load up the multidisc player, get distracted and then at some point notice that the music has stopped... Quote
Brandon Burke Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Hence, I decided to sell everything off. While the majority of it was funk/soul/80s rap LPs..... Damn. Where the hell was I......? Quote
undergroundagent Posted October 31, 2003 Report Posted October 31, 2003 There was some goodies too. Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 31, 2003 Report Posted October 31, 2003 It's ironic that, with Blue Note, one of the finest bunch of jazz sessions ever recorded, the original LPs are hard to find and the CDs are probably the worst example of the newer format (the TOCJs aside, of course). Yet with most other labels (in my experience, at least), nearly all the CDs, including the old 80s ones, sound very good. As an example, the old 16 bit OJCs are all great. Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 31, 2003 Report Posted October 31, 2003 I think there are a couple of people here who would dispute that evaluation of old OJCs. Quote
Peter A Posted October 31, 2003 Report Posted October 31, 2003 Has anyone seen a thick laminated cover of McLean's Blue Note LP "One Step Beyond"(4137). All I've seen is a thin, non-laminated one with the original New York USA label LP. Wolff, You are right, "One Step Beyond" is ONE of the few exceptions on the rule (that the first pressings of the early titles have laminated covers). Other titles with non-laminated covers are: "Up & Down" - Horace Parlan (4082), "Down To Earth" - Freddie Roach (4113) and "Am I Blue" - Grant Green. From 4150 on all covers (except 4156) are unlaminated. Peter Quote
wolff Posted October 31, 2003 Author Report Posted October 31, 2003 Other titles with non-laminated covers are: .... "Down To Earth" - Freddie Roach (4113) ..... My "Down To Earth" has a beautiful laminated cover. Quote
Daniel A Posted November 1, 2003 Report Posted November 1, 2003 It was fun buying and trading, but, ultimately, I found I was taking away from the music. A friend of mine has become quite obsessed with having first pressings ONLY. He still enjoys music, though, but in the form of MP3s, because he is too lazy to get the LPs out; in that case he would have to stand up... He has some self-insight after all - I heard him joke the other day that from now on he would only accept original master tapes, rather than records. Quote
undergroundagent Posted November 1, 2003 Report Posted November 1, 2003 (edited) That was me two years ago. I'm glad it isn't anymore. When I win my $25 million I will revert back to my old ways! Edited November 1, 2003 by undergroundagent Quote
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