Andorran Vinyl???

[captainwrong]

Ok, I was checking a new Half Price Books in the area. In addition to a ton of CDs from Gambit, Lone Hill, Definitive, Groove Hut, etc., etc., they had two new vinyl titles in the LP bins, Blakey's Moanin' and Baker/Pepper Playboys. They're obviously new, they have the HPB barcode stickers, etc. Now, both releases are gussied up to look authentic and they're clearly not Scorpio issues. The covers are matte, kind of washed out, flimsier than the Scorpios (although a little thicker, if that makes sense) but the material is almost slick. I don't know how else to describe them other than to say they look European but with lower quality printing than what I see on like a Philips or Deutsche Grammophon. The records themselves are heavier weight than standard, but probably not a full 180 grams. Both albums had an identifying mark of some kind in the dead wax scratched completely out, like an old concert bootleg LP. Moanin' had no additional clues as to it's origin. Playboy had a number on the back (K23P6709) which lead via Google here: http://www.multikulti.com/go/_info/?id=21397 And the label listed...Disconforme.

So, anyone else know what I'm talking about? Truly one of the weirder things I've seen in a while.

And no, I didn't buy them. They were $8 each, but I opted to spend my allowance on a minty fresh copy of Alligator Boogaloo I was shocked to find rather than some dodgy looking reissues. I am curious to hear what they sound like. My guess would be they sound exactly like a CD put on a record.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Captain Wrong

[kh1958]

Those are in the HPBs down here too. I'm going to skip them.

[Claude]

My guess would be they sound exactly like a CD put on a record.

And probably a poor pressing quality.

The low price is surprising, since today labels usually charge more for LPs than for CDs, and the Disconforme releases are generally quite expensive compared to other public domain labels.

[Aggie87]

Those two titles are also at my local Half Price store. I'm curious if others will suddenly start showing up too. Odd.

[captainwrong]

The low price is surprising, since today labels usually charge more for LPs than for CDs, and the Disconforme releases are generally quite expensive compared to other public domain labels.

As an ex-employee of HPB, I can explain the low price. There are two kinds of merchandise they get, the used stuff people bring in and overstock stuff that corporate buys from who knows where. During the time I worked there, Disconforme stuff started appearing (along with Proper boxes) and the prices were usually about $8 for a single disc. This has got to be more of that stuff. The thing I always felt was weird was how all this stuff was ending up in the US as it's gray market as best. I know that they buy out remainders from distributors, so I can only guess they bought this stuff from an overseas distro and since it's just old jazz, no one is getting that upset over it.

[kh1958]

The low price is surprising, since today labels usually charge more for LPs than for CDs, and the Disconforme releases are generally quite expensive compared to other public domain labels.

As an ex-employee of HPB, I can explain the low price. There are two kinds of merchandise they get, the used stuff people bring in and overstock stuff that corporate buys from who knows where. During the time I worked there, Disconforme stuff started appearing (along with Proper boxes) and the prices were usually about $8 for a single disc. This has got to be more of that stuff. The thing I always felt was weird was how all this stuff was ending up in the US as it's gray market as best. I know that they buy out remainders from distributors, so I can only guess they bought this stuff from an overseas distro and since it's just old jazz, no one is getting that upset over it.

It seems as if the majority of jazz CDs at HPB are not used or legitimate cut-out CDs, but rather are Spanish grey market CDs. Personally, I never buy them and find having to wade through so many of them rather irritating.

[Aggie87]

If these are Disconforme issues, why would they be dressing them up as Blue Note and Pacific Jazz releases? At least with their other titles where they're stealing other masters and issuing them under their own name, they're not trying to hide what they're doing.

To the casual eyes these look like legitimate BN/Pacific reissues, regardless of quality.

[captainwrong]

You ask the same question I have. Even if the sound recordings are public domain, wouldn't the label trademarks still be protected?

[captainwrong]

Saw more today. Getz West Coast Jazz, Shorter Adam's Apple and I forgot already what the other title was. LOL

[JSngry]

Isn't there some American company doing legit, inexpensive vinyl pressings? Seems like we had a discussion about it a few years ago. They're probably not using master tapes or anything, but they appeared to be on the up-and-up anyway.

[Teasing the Korean]

Isn't there some American company doing legit, inexpensive vinyl pressings? Seems like we had a discussion about it a few years ago. They're probably not using master tapes or anything, but they appeared to be on the up-and-up anyway.

The label is Scorpio. The albums are legitimately licensed and mastered from DATs made from the masters. A great value, especially for rare titles. I've never been disappointed, except for the odd LP that showed up in less-than-flat condition.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Teasing the Korean

[JSngry]

Yeah, that's them. Thanks for the memory!

Any possibility that the items under discussion here are from them?

[Teasing the Korean]

For what it's worth, it's pretty easy to tell when vinyl is mastered from vinyl (groove distortion on the inner grooves, for starters).

I have no issue philosophically with CDs mastered from vinyl, but I really can't stand vinyl mastered from vinyl.

[Big Al]

Saw more today. Getz West Coast Jazz, Shorter Adam's Apple and I forgot already what the other title was. LOL

John Lewis' Afternoon in Paris perhaps? That's the one I saw at one of the Arlington HPB's.

They also have "140g vinyl" stickers on them as well.

[RDK]

For what it's worth, it's pretty easy to tell when vinyl is mastered from vinyl (groove distortion on the inner grooves, for starters).

I have no issue philosophically with CDs mastered from vinyl, but I really can't stand vinyl mastered from vinyl.

Who said these were mastered rom vinyl? But yeah, there's no point releasing new vinyl ripped from old.

[captainwrong]

Saw more today. Getz West Coast Jazz, Shorter Adam's Apple and I forgot already what the other title was. LOL

John Lewis' Afternoon in Paris perhaps? That's the one I saw at one of the Arlington HPB's.

They also have "140g vinyl" stickers on them as well.

that's it.

I'm 100% these aren't Scorpio. The copy of Playboys I mentioned upthread had a new catalog number which when I googled led to a list of Disconforme vinyl from a distributor. Scorpios aren't 140 gram (what a weird weight) and the covers are matte rather than the glossy of Scorpio releases. They aren't shrink wrapped like Scorpio releases either, they are in some kind of sealed bags. Additionally, unless a distributor was blowing out a bunch of Scorpio pressings, Half Price Books wouldn't have them. Stuff from the Disconforme group regularly showed up in shipment. (You can identify that stuff my the yellow barcode price stickers.)

And Scorpio doesn't scratch the martix numbers out like the ones of these I've slid out of the sleeve had. If that doesn't spell less than legit, I don't know what does.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Captain Wrong

[Big Beat Steve]

I have no issue philosophically with CDs mastered from vinyl, but I really can't stand vinyl mastered from vinyl.

I suppose you realize how much musc from past decades would have remained TOTALLY unreissued if this had ever been a valid yardstick? (That is, unless you are satisfied with a scant few major label reissues, because - all copyright issues aside - there must be a lot of labels where no session tapes are around anymore)

Remember there are good and there are bad remasterings, even from vinyl, so you really can't generalize. I'd venture to say some 80s/90s needle drops are better than many 60s/70s "enhanced stereos" with pseudo echo etc.

All in all I've never been disappointed with the Fresh Sound vinyl I've bought through the years (though I'll admit my hifi system is no high-end system). And the fact that they stuck to the original cover artwork is a HUGE bonus to the collector when compared to MANY other reissues of the past 30 years that came with UTTERLY UGLY, nondescript, totall out-of-tune "redesigned" (actually loused-up) "modernized" covers.

And what's the key difference between reisued CDs or vinyl from vinyl? Isn't the fact that you use vinyl as the SOURCE the decisive factor?

BTW, TTK:

Do your reservations also apply to "non-Andorran" VSOP vinyl reissues? I doubt that all of them are remasters from the original tapes.

[Teasing the Korean]

And what's the key difference between reisued CDs or vinyl from vinyl? Isn't the fact that you use vinyl as the SOURCE the decisive factor?

Because you DOUBLE the amount of groove distortion with vinyl to vinyl. Vinyl to CD has the potential of sounding good if it's done right.

Do your reservations also apply to "non-Andorran" VSOP vinyl reissues? I doubt that all of them are remasters from the original tapes.

I've never heard of Andorran until this thread, so I wouldn't know. I do know that LPs mastered from LPs generally do not sound all that great, at least from some specific examples I can site. I'll opt for the CD issue in these instances.

[JSngry]

Disconforme shows up here too: http://www.titlespace.com/catalogue/all-titles/music/1899/ as well as plenty other places.