The Beatles why do they sound so different from early Rock

[Alexander]

There's a reason George Martin is sometimes referred to as the fifth Beatle.

Up over and out.

His lame-ass, flaccid stereo mixes are surely not part of that reason, unfortunately.

The Beatles need to be heard in MONO!

I agree that the Beatles sound best in mono. I don't know if Martin is specifically to blame for the quality of the stereo mixes, however...

[zen archer]

I think Geoff Emerick had more to do with The Beatles sound than George Martin.

[.:.impossible]

This has been an informative thread for me. I have never read much about The Beatles and I can tell that a few of you have really researched a lot.

I assumed that a part of why they sounded different from other bands that came before them was a number of things already mentioned, and the fact that each of them brought their own style and tunes to the band, rather than having one primary songwriter. I don't know the ratio of Lennon to McCartney, Harrison, Starr tunes in their catalog, but I felt that had an impact. Also, that they didn't always stick to their "primary" instrument springs to mind.

Would you consider these to be factors as well?

[.:.impossible]

The Kinks don't really sound that much like other bands of the era either, nor does The Who. Both seemed to come out of the same "early rock" that The Beatles did, but really extrapolated on that from an early stage, no?

[Karma Police]

The Kinks don't really sound that much like other bands of the era either, nor does The Who. Both seemed to come out of the same "early rock" that The Beatles did, but really extrapolated on that from an early stage, no?

The Beatles are considered by many the first Power-Pop band a variant of hard rock- Unusual chord progressions strong melodies, crisp vocal harmonies, economical arrangements, and prominent guitar riffs. Instrumental solos are usually kept to a minimum, and blues elements are largely downplayed. Recordings tend to display production values that lean toward compression and a forceful drum beat. Examples are "She Loves You" a "Hard Days Night"

The early Who sound is also considered Power Pop in which they took the 12 string sound as done by by the Beatles and the Byrds to a harder level. You hardly hear long guitar solos by the Who. Examples "I Can't Explain" and the "Kids Are Alright".

The Kinks were the proto garage and hard rock band with tracks like "You Really Got Me". They softened their sound by 1966 and became very pop "Sunny Afternoon" and "Waterloo Sunset"

Edited November 6, 2008 by Karma Police

[JETman]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

[JSngry]

How many 5th Beatles were there anyway?

[Jazzmoose]

The Beatles are considered by many the first Power-Pop band a variant of hard rock-

Oh really...

[Jazzmoose]

The Kinks were the proto garage and hard rock band with tracks like "You Really Got Me". They softened their sound by 1966 and became very pop "Sunny Afternoon" and "Waterloo Sunset"

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

"The world of Hank Crawford".

MG

[Hot Ptah]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

"The world of Hank Crawford".

MG

"Minnie The Moocher's Wedding Day", by Horace Henderson (members of the group include Henry "Red" Allen and Coleman Hawkins)

[JETman]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

"The world of Hank Crawford".

MG

"Minnie The Moocher's Wedding Day", by Horace Henderson (members of the group include Henry "Red" Allen and Coleman Hawkins)

I thought so. Can we now move on from Beatle bashing?

[Hot Ptah]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

"The world of Hank Crawford".

MG

"Minnie The Moocher's Wedding Day", by Horace Henderson (members of the group include Henry "Red" Allen and Coleman Hawkins)

I thought so. Can we now move on from Beatle bashing?

I am not bashing the Beatles with my Horace Henderson remark. I owned all of their albums as they were coming out and played them a bazillion times. They were huge in my life when I was young. They were huge to everyone, as I remember. I still like their music and think that they were really good. When I listen to their albums now, I am struck by the attention to detail and high quality throughout.

I just think that Abbey Road is only one of thousands of recordings that is fine and mature.

[Karma Police]

I like jazz music a lot of progressive rock is influenced by jazz music. The thing is I like to know was Jazz musicians experimenting things like backward tape, tape loops, feedback and Indian Music, before it got to rock music?

I know Coltrane was influenced by Indian music. Did he use actual instrumentation? He actually predates all rockers using Indian influences. Miles Davis was influenced by Modal Music. Where I give George Harrison credit he used the classical style in instrumentation, rhythm and style.

One interesting quote from Stockhausen. Stockhausen he once referred to John Lennon as "the most important mediator between popular and serious music" of the 20th century.

I think he must have meant popular music but that must have pissed off McCartney who actually was the one who was studying Stockhausen first.

Edited November 6, 2008 by Karma Police

[JETman]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

"The world of Hank Crawford".

MG

"Minnie The Moocher's Wedding Day", by Horace Henderson (members of the group include Henry "Red" Allen and Coleman Hawkins)

I thought so. Can we now move on from Beatle bashing?

I am not bashing the Beatles with my Horace Henderson remark. I owned all of their albums as they were coming out and played them a bazillion times. They were huge in my life when I was young. They were huge to everyone, as I remember. I still like their music and think that they were really good. When I listen to their albums now, I am struck by the attention to detail and high quality throughout.

I just think that Abbey Road is only one of thousands of recordings that is fine and mature.

Fair enough. But I said "final" musical statement. That is, a last album made by an individual or group of musicians.

I have just gotten really tired of the Beatles being called "shallow", directly or indirectly. The high quality of their music still comes through to my ears today, even after all these years of mostly jazz listening. And, fwiw, they sure as hell beat Elvis AND a poke in the eye with a sharp stick anyday

[.:.impossible]

I know Coltrane was influenced by Indian music. Did he use actual instrumentation? He actually predates all rockers using Indian influences. Miles Davis was influenced by Modal Music. Where I give George Harrison credit he used the classical style in instrumentation, rhythm and style.

Live at the Village Vanguard 1961. If you don't already own it, you really should go out now and buy the box set.

[A Lark Ascending]

The Beatles why do they sound so different from early Rock?

Early rock - in various degrees of dilution - wears its black roots very clearly.

The Beatles may have started out playing Chuck Berry but around 'A Hard Days Night'/'Help' it's the songs that draw on a more 'European' harmonic or melodic tradition that are best remembered. Whether this came from the American songbook or the 'light music' of the 60s era, I've no idea. But I think it's what sets them apart from the generlly blues based nature of most pop/rock at the time.

Of course they frequently directly referenced their love of black musics - everything from 'Got to get you into my life' to 'Get Back'. But your 'Fool on the Hill's and 'Penny Lane's come from somewhere else.

My Dad - a great fan of light classics, Vera Lynn, Sinatra etc - hated pop music and hated soul/gospel/blues type sounds (without knowing what they were). All he heard was screaming. Yet he loved many of the Beatles songs. They connected with the tradition he was used to that was pre-rock'n roll. And as a ten year old with little conscious awareness of music I immediately loved things like 'Hello, Goodbye' where Motown left me unmoved - mainly, I suspect, because the former fitted with the Radio 2/MOR/Rogers and Hammerstein musical world I grew up in.

The magpie nature of their music certainly gave it great range and variety - the string quartet sound on 'Eleanor Rigby', baroque trumpet on 'Penny Lane' or avant-garde sounds on 'I am the Walrus'.

One 'magpie' example I never realised until recently was 'Lady Madonna', which was based on Humphrey Lyttleton's 'Bad Penny Blues' - an example where the black influence is clear in the boogie-woogie piano, though the middle eight seems to go somewhere else.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

"The world of Hank Crawford".

MG

"Minnie The Moocher's Wedding Day", by Horace Henderson (members of the group include Henry "Red" Allen and Coleman Hawkins)

I thought so. Can we now move on from Beatle bashing?

I am not bashing the Beatles with my Horace Henderson remark. I owned all of their albums as they were coming out and played them a bazillion times. They were huge in my life when I was young. They were huge to everyone, as I remember. I still like their music and think that they were really good. When I listen to their albums now, I am struck by the attention to detail and high quality throughout.

I just think that Abbey Road is only one of thousands of recordings that is fine and mature.

Fair enough. But I said "final" musical statement. That is, a last album made by an individual or group of musicians.

Well, wasn't "Let it be" the Beatles last album?

MG

[Aggie87]

Well, wasn't "Let it be" the Beatles last album?

MG

It was the last released album, but it was actually recorded before Abbey Road.

[clifford_thornton]

I think he must have meant popular music but that must have pissed off McCartney who actually was the one who was studying Stockhausen first.

Clearly an influence on WINGS, as well as Linda McCartney's cooking (erm, maybe that was Musica Elettronica Viva's "Zuppa")

[clifford_thornton]

I like jazz music a lot of progressive rock is influenced by jazz music. The thing is I like to know was Jazz musicians experimenting things like backward tape, tape loops, feedback and Indian Music, before it got to rock music?

SUN RA

[BillF]

The Beatles why do they sound so different from early Rock?

Early rock - in various degrees of dilution - wears its black roots very clearly.

The Beatles may have started out playing Chuck Berry but around 'A Hard Days Night'/'Help' it's the songs that draw on a more 'European' harmonic or melodic tradition that are best remembered. Whether this came from the American songbook or the 'light music' of the 60s era, I've no idea. But I think it's what sets them apart from the generlly blues based nature of most pop/rock at the time.

Of course they frequently directly referenced their love of black musics - everything from 'Got to get you into my life' to 'Get Back'. But your 'Fool on the Hill's and 'Penny Lane's come from somewhere else.

My Dad - a great fan of light classics, Vera Lynn, Sinatra etc - hated pop music and hated soul/gospel/blues type sounds (without knowing what they were). All he heard was screaming. Yet he loved many of the Beatles songs. They connected with the tradition he was used to that was pre-rock'n roll. And as a ten year old with little conscious awareness of music I immediately loved things like 'Hello, Goodbye' where Motown left me unmoved - mainly, I suspect, because the former fitted with the Radio 2/MOR/Rogers and Hammerstein musical world I grew up in.

The magpie nature of their music certainly gave it great range and variety - the string quartet sound on 'Eleanor Rigby', baroque trumpet on 'Penny Lane' or avant-garde sounds on 'I am the Walrus'.

One 'magpie' example I never realised until recently was 'Lady Madonna', which was based on Humphrey Lyttleton's 'Bad Penny Blues' - an example where the black influence is clear in the boogie-woogie piano, though the middle eight seems to go somewhere else.

Valid and well informed comment.

[zen archer]

Can anyone name a finer, more mature, final musical statement, in any genre, than "Abbey Road"?

"The world of Hank Crawford".

MG

"Minnie The Moocher's Wedding Day", by Horace Henderson (members of the group include Henry "Red" Allen and Coleman Hawkins)

I thought so. Can we now move on from Beatle bashing?

I am not bashing the Beatles with my Horace Henderson remark. I owned all of their albums as they were coming out and played them a bazillion times. They were huge in my life when I was young. They were huge to everyone, as I remember. I still like their music and think that they were really good. When I listen to their albums now, I am struck by the attention to detail and high quality throughout.

I just think that Abbey Road is only one of thousands of recordings that is fine and mature.

Fair enough. But I said "final" musical statement. That is, a last album made by an individual or group of musicians.

I have just gotten really tired of the Beatles being called "shallow", directly or indirectly. The high quality of their music still comes through to my ears today, even after all these years of mostly jazz listening. And, fwiw, they sure as hell beat Elvis AND a poke in the eye with a sharp stick anyday

I love Macca , BUT I LOVE ELVIS waaaaaaaay more than the Beatles.

[Adam]

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Everything I needed to know, I learned from a shampoo bottle.

I always thought that it was a marketing man who came up with Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

Either it makes you buy twice as much shampoo, or the product isn't good enough to work the first time around.

the marketing guy came up with "Repeat."

[A Lark Ascending]

Something else I've always found odd.

There are lots of Beatles songs that have the same sort of melting chord changes that send a tingle down my spine - the same sort of thing you get from a Kern or Rodgers tune.

Neither Lennon nor McCartney wrote anything like that afterwards. The melodies of things like 'Imagine' or 'Band on the Run' seem extremely unadventurous compared with even an early tune like 'If I Fell' (and yes, they did write equally dull tunes like Yellow Submarine in their heyday), not to mention the extraordinary second side of 'Abbey Road'.

Many new Beatles songs sounded magical when they first came out; I can recall feeling really disappointed as the ex-Beatles songs rolled out in the early 70s, having none of that magic. I don't think I've ever owned a post-Abbey Road ex-Beatles record.