2008-2009 Hot Stove Thread

[Dan Gould]

What's more: If I have a choice between Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, and Thurman Munson -- I'll pick Munson every time, he was a great player.

Well Piazza was all hit and no field, and I-Rod's offense was chemically enhanced. So that's a fair choice. Now looking at Fisk and Munson while they were both alive, I think the numbers favor Fisk.

[Matthew]

What's more: If I have a choice between Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, and Thurman Munson -- I'll pick Munson every time, he was a great player.

Well Piazza was all hit and no field, and I-Rod's offense was chemically enhanced. So that's a fair choice. Now looking at Fisk and Munson while they were both alive, I think the numbers favor Fisk.

I think that comparison is closer. Remember, Fisk was a right-handed batter playing at Fenway (and pre-new pressbox Fenway at that), while Munson had Yankee Stadium, with "death valley" to contend with. What separates Fisk from Munson is longevity, with Fisk playing a ton of games after the age of 35. Both great players, but I would still take Munson over Fisk at the top of their games.

[Dan Gould]

What's more: If I have a choice between Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, and Thurman Munson -- I'll pick Munson every time, he was a great player.

Well Piazza was all hit and no field, and I-Rod's offense was chemically enhanced. So that's a fair choice. Now looking at Fisk and Munson while they were both alive, I think the numbers favor Fisk.

I think that comparison is closer. Remember, Fisk was a right-handed batter playing at Fenway (and pre-new pressbox Fenway at that), while Munson had Yankee Stadium, with "death valley" to contend with. What separates Fisk from Munson is longevity, with Fisk playing a ton of games after the age of 35. Both great players, but I would still take Munson over Fisk at the top of their games.

OPS+ which takes into account Park Effects, starting with their first full time seasons and continuing for nine seasons, and concluding with the year prior to Munson's untimely demise (when his OPS+ was 95):

Munson: Fisk:

126 162

105 105

114 158

141 150

101 109

126 138

125 125

121 96

101 118

So on a critical stat that is normalized for park effects, Fisk averaged 129 to Munson's 118 for their first nine seasons in the league.

To Munson's credit, he was a better run producer (three seasons of 100 RBIs, Fisk had only 1) and a better hitter for average (six years of .297 or better).

Of course, this is an argument that raged back then, too! I think if Munson had played a still high level to age 35 or so, he'd have gone in. But I'm left to wonder if those last two seasons were the start of a pretty precipitous decline.

[Dan Gould]

More on Clemens, from the NYT:

Those investigators were the ones who received needles, syringes, gauze pads and steroid vials from McNamee, who said he had used them to inject Clemens with steroids and human growth hormone. According to the lawyers who had been briefed on the case, there are now some results from the DNA and steroid tests that were conducted on those items, and those results were, in part, a factor in the decision to move ahead with the case.

If you didn't have other evidence to back up McNamee's version (like Pettitte) then the history of the needles/gauze pads etc might give Rusty a chance to overcome the physical evidence. But when you put it all together, how can you refute the conclusion that he used when all of the evidence points in one direction? And it won't help Clemens if he changes up and says "I didn't know what he was injecting into me" because that isn't what he said in front of Congress.

The Daily News has it right - Clemens is likely in deeper doo-doo than Bonds, because Bonds was the artful dodger in his grand jury testimony (and admittedly having questioners who didn't do the greatest job in nailing his testimony down with simple, direct questions) but Roger gave unequivocal statements, both on his own and in answering questions.

[Quincy]

Question for my stats-saturated friends:

Does Thurman Munson belong in the Hall?

I dearly loved Munson - he was one of my favorite players as kid and thus always favored him over Fisk when Thurman was alive. But no, I don't think he belongs as he just doesn't have enough great seasons. He was having back & knee troubles in his final season. They had been trying him in the outfield in his final years to save him from some wear & tear but it was too late. To paraphrase Bill James, death is just another form of injury, a very bad one, but lots of guys had their careers cut short by injury, and we don't make special allowances for them (unless the name is Kirby.)

He does have the "aura of greatness" with having been a Yankee captain, being a big part of bringing that franchise back to glory after all those years of sucking, and he has great World Series numbers. But if you're going to put in a guy who played some catcher who isn't in, Joe Torre deserves it more. Though poor Joe has no post season at bats. Poor guy, never got a taste of winning. Oh wait...

[Chalupa]

Derek Lowe to Braves...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3829521

Kawakami too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3829404

[paul secor]

Personally, I didn't think that Jim Rice deserved to be in the HOF, but he's in and I tip my hat to him. I think that standards have been lowered in recent years, and that exceptions have been made in the past that shouldn't have been made.

I don't think that Phil Rizzuto should have been elected. I don't think that Pee Wee Reese should have been elected. I don't believe that Tony Perez should have been elected. I don't think that Sandy Koufax or Dizzy Dean Should have been elected - five great years don't equal a Hall of Fame career. I don't feel that Nolan Ryan should have been elected - won a lot of games because he pitched for a long time; struck out out a lot of hitters; pitched a bunch of no-hitters; but his won lost percentage is terrible. People say that he pitched for bad teams, but Steve Carlton, Ferguson Jenkins, and Walter Johnson pitched for bad teams and had appreciably higher W/L percentages. I don't think that Thurman Munson should be elected to the Hall of Fame.

I feel that membership in the Hall of Fame should be limited to great players, and that very good players should be seen as very good players but not Hall of Famers.

Those are my opinions, and I realize that's what they are. I respect all of the players who have been elected to the Hall of Fame even if I may not agree with their election.

Edited January 13, 2009 by paul secor

[zen archer]

Personally, I didn't think that Jim Rice deserved to be in the HOF, but he's in and I tip my hat to him. I think that standards have been lowered in recent years, and that exceptions have been made in the past that shouldn't have been made.

I don't think that Phil Rizzuto should have been elected. I don't think that Pee Wee Reese should have been elected. I don't believe that Tony Perez should have been elected. I don't think that Sandy Koufax or Dizzy Dean Should have been elected - five great years don't equal a Hall of Fame career. I don't feel that Nolan Ryan should have been elected - won a lot of games because he pitched for a long time; struck out out a lot of hitters; pitched a bunch of no-hitters; but his won lost percentage is terrible. People say that he pitched for bad teams, but Steve Carlton, Ferguson Jenkins, and Walter Johnson pitched for bad teams and had appreciably higher W/L percentages. I don't think that Thurman Munson should be elected to the Hall of Fame.

I feel that membership in the Hall of Fame should be limited to great players, and that very good players should be seen as very good players but not Hall of Famers.

Those are my opinions, and I realize that's what they are. I respect all of the players who have been elected to the Hall of Fame even if I may not agree with their election.

I disagree with you on Jim Rice ....check out these stats :

Dick Bresciani, the Vice President of Publications & Archives with the Boston Red Sox, recently mailed out his arguments for the inclusion of Jim Rice in the Baseball Hall of Fame (an argument with which I agree, by the way).

Bresc's many points were very compelling. Here are but a few:

CAREER (1974-1989)

Led A.L. with 382 HR and 1451 RBI in his 16-year career, all with Boston.

Rare Power & Average: Seventeen players with 300+ HR and a career AVG as high as Rice have been on the HOF ballot. All but Rice are HOF:

Aaron, Brett, DiMaggio, Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg, Hornsby, Klein, Mantle, Mays, Mize, Musial, Ott, Rice, Ruth, A. Simmons, T. Williams.

8-time All-Star

8-time 100 RBI

7-time .300 hitter

6-time Top 5 in A.L. MVP – more than anyone else during Rice’s career (Murray 5)

4-time A.L. TB leader

3-time A.L. HR leader

1978 A.L. MVP (.315 AVG, 46 HR, 139 RBI, 406 TB, .600 SLG, 213 H, 15 3B)

Only M.L. player to lead either league outright in 3B, HR, and RBI

Only A.L. player with 400+ TB since 1937 (Joe DiMaggio)

A.L. record for biggest margin in TB (113 over Murray)

Only A.L. player with 46+ HR between ’69 (Killebrew) and ’87 (McGwire)

3-YEAR STRETCH (1977-1979)

Only player in M.L. history with 3 straight seasons of 35+ HR and 200+ hits

Tied A.L. record of 3 consecutive years as TB leader (Williams, Cobb)

Ruth and Foxx are the others in A.L. with 3+ straight 39+ HR, .315 seasons.

A DOZEN YEARS OF DOMINANCE (1975-1986)

Twenty M.L. players have hit .300+ with 350+ HR over a 12-season stretch (Babe Ruth was the first, from 1915-1926), but Jim Rice stands alone in his dozen years (1975-86).

He is the only M.L. player of his generation who accomplished the feat (linking 1974, when Hank Aaron became the career HR leader, to 2001, when Barry Bonds became the single-season HR leader). All players on the following list who have been on the Hall of Fame ballot have been elected – except for Jim Rice.

From 1975 to 1986 Jim Rice was the most dominant player in the American League. During that 12-year stretch he led the league in 12 categories and ranked among the top five in two others. His numbers are indicative of a player who was dangerous in nearly every situation.

He led the league over that period with 350 home runs but unlike most sluggers of his day, he ranked fourth with a .304 batting average. He collected the most hits over that time period and also ranked first with a .520 slugging percentage. He legged-out 73 triples, including 15 in 1977 and 1978, and he was the most dangerous outfielder to run on in the American League. In every category he ranks above or among existing Hall of Famers.

Edited January 13, 2009 by zen archer

[Soulstation1]

i like that rickey had 3K hits and 2K walks

Impressive

[paul secor]

Personally, I didn't think that Jim Rice deserved to be in the HOF, but he's in and I tip my hat to him. I think that standards have been lowered in recent years, and that exceptions have been made in the past that shouldn't have been made.

I don't think that Phil Rizzuto should have been elected. I don't think that Pee Wee Reese should have been elected. I don't believe that Tony Perez should have been elected. I don't think that Sandy Koufax or Dizzy Dean Should have been elected - five great years don't equal a Hall of Fame career. I don't feel that Nolan Ryan should have been elected - won a lot of games because he pitched for a long time; struck out out a lot of hitters; pitched a bunch of no-hitters; but his won lost percentage is terrible. People say that he pitched for bad teams, but Steve Carlton, Ferguson Jenkins, and Walter Johnson pitched for bad teams and had appreciably higher W/L percentages. I don't think that Thurman Munson should be elected to the Hall of Fame.

I feel that membership in the Hall of Fame should be limited to great players, and that very good players should be seen as very good players but not Hall of Famers.

Those are my opinions, and I realize that's what they are. I respect all of the players who have been elected to the Hall of Fame even if I may not agree with their election.

I disagree with you on Jim Rice ....check out these stats :

Dick Bresciani, the Vice President of Publications & Archives with the Boston Red Sox, recently mailed out his arguments for the inclusion of Jim Rice in the Baseball Hall of Fame (an argument with which I agree, by the way).

Bresc's many points were very compelling. Here are but a few:

CAREER (1974-1989)

Led A.L. with 382 HR and 1451 RBI in his 16-year career, all with Boston.

Rare Power & Average: Seventeen players with 300+ HR and a career AVG as high as Rice have been on the HOF ballot. All but Rice are HOF:

Aaron, Brett, DiMaggio, Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg, Hornsby, Klein, Mantle, Mays, Mize, Musial, Ott, Rice, Ruth, A. Simmons, T. Williams.

8-time All-Star

8-time 100 RBI

7-time .300 hitter

6-time Top 5 in A.L. MVP – more than anyone else during Rice’s career (Murray 5)

4-time A.L. TB leader

3-time A.L. HR leader

1978 A.L. MVP (.315 AVG, 46 HR, 139 RBI, 406 TB, .600 SLG, 213 H, 15 3B)

Only M.L. player to lead either league outright in 3B, HR, and RBI

Only A.L. player with 400+ TB since 1937 (Joe DiMaggio)

A.L. record for biggest margin in TB (113 over Murray)

Only A.L. player with 46+ HR between ’69 (Killebrew) and ’87 (McGwire)

3-YEAR STRETCH (1977-1979)

Only player in M.L. history with 3 straight seasons of 35+ HR and 200+ hits

Tied A.L. record of 3 consecutive years as TB leader (Williams, Cobb)

Ruth and Foxx are the others in A.L. with 3+ straight 39+ HR, .315 seasons.

A DOZEN YEARS OF DOMINANCE (1975-1986)

Twenty M.L. players have hit .300+ with 350+ HR over a 12-season stretch (Babe Ruth was the first, from 1915-1926), but Jim Rice stands alone in his dozen years (1975-86).

He is the only M.L. player of his generation who accomplished the feat (linking 1974, when Hank Aaron became the career HR leader, to 2001, when Barry Bonds became the single-season HR leader). All players on the following list who have been on the Hall of Fame ballot have been elected – except for Jim Rice.

From 1975 to 1986 Jim Rice was the most dominant player in the American League. During that 12-year stretch he led the league in 12 categories and ranked among the top five in two others. His numbers are indicative of a player who was dangerous in nearly every situation.

He led the league over that period with 350 home runs but unlike most sluggers of his day, he ranked fourth with a .304 batting average. He collected the most hits over that time period and also ranked first with a .520 slugging percentage. He legged-out 73 triples, including 15 in 1977 and 1978, and he was the most dangerous outfielder to run on in the American League. In every category he ranks above or among existing Hall of Famers.

Good points - The Sox have a good p.r. man.

What I looked at was:

400 career home runs - Nope.

.300 career batting average - Nope.

1500 career rbi's - Nope.

Golden glove outfielder - Nope.

I have nothing against Jim Rice. He had his problems with the Boston press, which may well be a point in his favor. When I saw him on the field, he always seemed to conduct himself as a gentleman. He was a very good hitter and I always hated to see him come to bat against the Yankees. I'm happy for for him and for his fans.

Edited January 13, 2009 by paul secor

[Quincy]

Bresc's many points were very compelling. Here are but a few:

CAREER (1974-1989) Led A.L. with 382 HR and 1451 RBI in his 16-year career, all with Boston.

A hitters' park in its day. Had he played his career in Oakland he likely would have been a .275-.280 hitter with fewer homers. Doesn't sound as compelling does it?

1978 A.L. MVP (.315 AVG, 46 HR, 139 RBI, 406 TB, .600 SLG, 213 H, 15 3B)

1978 Home: .361/.416/.690 | Road: 269/.325/.512

Only A.L. player with 400+ TB since 1937 (Joe DiMaggio)

Only A.L. player with 46+ HR between ’69 (Killebrew) and ’87 (McGwire)

Roger Maris hit 61 HR in '61.

George Foster only N.L. player to hit 52 HR from 1966 to 1998.

As far as I know we don't put guys in the Hall for one great year.

Only player in M.L. history with 3 straight seasons of 35+ HR and 200+ hits

That's nice. That's what happens when you walk less than 60 times in a year too. Personally I'll take Pujols 4 straight years of at least 177 hits, 41 HR and .330 AVG. Or Frank Thomas 7 straight years of .300+/.430+OBP & 100+ RBI.

Also the "3 year stretch" argument brings up a lot guys like Mattingly, Parker, Foster, Gonzalez and so forth. What's so magical about a 3 year stretch?

Ruth and Foxx are the others in A.L. with 3+ straight 39+ HR, .315 seasons.

Why 39 homers? What happens if you make it 38, or 37? What if you make it .310 and 35, or .316 and 37? Thirty-nine? Please. Anytime you see something like "only guy to hit 35 doubles, 9 triples, 34 homers and steal 8 bases while hitting .294" (so I exaggerate) a light should come on and a bell go "ding-ding-ding" that some self-serving self-selected stats are coming your way.

A DOZEN YEARS OF DOMINANCE (1975-1986)

Why is he leaving off the last 3 years of Rice's career? If we include those last 3 years does Rice no longer lead that period? My guess is that he gets bumped. (Do I hear chants of Reg-gie Reg-gie?)

Twenty M.L. players have hit .300+ with 350+ HR over a 12-season stretch (Babe Ruth was the first, from 1915-1926), but Jim Rice stands alone in his dozen years (1975-86).

Gee, he beat all the other guys who started their careers in 1975 (take that Fred Lynn!) and played through '86 (but again, let's not include those final years, even though he wasn't that old.)

From 1975 to 1986 Jim Rice was the most dominant player in the American League. During that 12-year stretch he led the league in 12 categories and ranked among the top five in two others. His numbers are indicative of a player who was dangerous in nearly every situation.

A 4 year stretch of "close & late" stats (roughly 80-90 AB per year)

1982 .279/.337/.500

1983 .237/.314/.441

1984 .182/.243/.374

1985 .259/.308/.506

Hardly seems like the guy you'd most fear to face. And yes, I cherry picked the bad just for fun. His RISP for some of those same years above are very good. It's just this "most dangerous man" stuff is a bit thick.

He led the league over that period with 350 home runs but unlike most sluggers of his day, he ranked fourth with a .304 batting average.

Ever notice what happened with Reggie when he got out of Oakland and moved to Yankee? Had Reggie been in a favorable hitters' park he would have had a higher batting average too.

He legged-out 73 triples, including 15 in 1977 and 1978,

The recognition of the triple is my favorite part of all of this. I'm a big fan of the triple. Outside of those 2 years he hit 8 once and 7 once for his next best totals. His best 2 triple years he split 'em fairly evenly (for an odd number) between the home & road, so it's not like he was benefiting from going the other way at Fenway (as some righties did playing at Forbes Field.)

and he was the most dangerous outfielder to run on in the American League.

Balderdash! He must be confusing Rice with his teammate Evans. Or Dave Parker (oops, wrong league.) Even Reggie had a better arm, though getting to the ball was another matter.

Rice was very good and benefited a great deal from the park he played him. I'm not upset that he was inducted but if you put Rice in then I think a whole lot of other "very good" players should get in too.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Quincy

[papsrus]

Personally, I didn't think that Jim Rice deserved to be in the HOF, but he's in and I tip my hat to him. I think that standards have been lowered in recent years, and that exceptions have been made in the past that shouldn't have been made.

I don't think that Phil Rizzuto should have been elected. I don't think that Pee Wee Reese should have been elected. I don't believe that Tony Perez should have been elected. I don't think that Sandy Koufax or Dizzy Dean Should have been elected - five great years don't equal a Hall of Fame career. I don't feel that Nolan Ryan should have been elected - won a lot of games because he pitched for a long time; struck out out a lot of hitters; pitched a bunch of no-hitters; but his won lost percentage is terrible. People say that he pitched for bad teams, but Steve Carlton, Ferguson Jenkins, and Walter Johnson pitched for bad teams and had appreciably higher W/L percentages. I don't think that Thurman Munson should be elected to the Hall of Fame.

I feel that membership in the Hall of Fame should be limited to great players, and that very good players should be seen as very good players but not Hall of Famers.

Those are my opinions, and I realize that's what they are. I respect all of the players who have been elected to the Hall of Fame even if I may not agree with their election.

I'm not a numbers guy (which may automatically disqualify my opinion), but some of the names you've thrown out as not deserving are a bit surprising. Koufax, Dean, Ryan? Are these even on anyone's "marginal" list? And you say on the one hand five good years shouldn't qualify a pitcher, then say Ryan's longevity shouldn't be a factor either. I dunno. ... I'm sure you have stats to back up your opinions on these guys, but I just wouldn't give any of these three a second thought.

I was pretty young, but I remember Munson as a beast of a man. Those cats were cut from a different cloth back then, me thinks.

[zen archer]

Only player in M.L. history with 3 straight seasons of 35+ HR and 200+ hits

That's nice. That's what happens when you walk less than 60 times in a year too. Personally I'll take Pujols 4 straight years of at least 177 hits, 41 HR and .330 AVG. Or Frank Thomas 7 straight years of .300+/.430+OBP & 100+ RBI.

That's nice ???????.......He is the only player to do that in the Majors ever !

The key in that stat is HITS you just don't see guys hitting that many HR's and 200 hits....i just looked up Manny's Career Stats and he has never had a 200 hit year !!!!!..NEVER

and we (Red Sox Nation) think he is the best hitter we have ever seen?

Edited January 13, 2009 by zen archer

[zen archer]

75 Triples is a lot , again Manny has 18 for his career .......Hustle counts !

[Tim McG]

If the Earthquake of 1989 didn't happen, I predict the Giants would have made a real contest out of the WS...maybe even won it.

Sorry Tim.

Not.A.Chance.In.Hell.

And I say that as someone who is definitely NOT an A's fan.

I have to agree with GS on this one. In game four, Kevin Mitchell just missed parking one out of the 'Stick that would have put the Giants ahead. I still think to this day, if that went out, the Giants would have made a run at winning the series. That quake messed everyone up in the Bay Area, even where I lived in Berkeley, people were more berserk than usual.

The Giants were peaking when the WS started. Sure the A's had a stacked team especially with their ace Dave Stewart and Ricky Henderson's nearly automatic hit every time up. But we had a dead soild defense [with infielders Matt Williams, Robby Thompson and Will Clark coupled with OF'ers Brett Butler and Kevin Mitchell] and a pitching staff that got the job done most days helped the Giants to a 90-72 season record.

I can't say they would have won but they would have pushed the WS to at least game 6.

Edited January 13, 2009 by GoodSpeak

[Quincy]

The key in that stat is HITS you just don't see guys hitting that many HR's and 200 hits....i just looked up Manny's Career Stats and he has never had a 200 hit year !!!!!..NEVER

So what? He WALKS more and also usually misses 10 games a year. He also has had hit for a much higher average than Rice, higher OBP, slugs more. He's also hit a lot more HRs lifetime than Rice. I don't mean to belittle Rice's career, but there are more important things than having 200 hits in a year when it comes to being a great hitter.

[Quincy]

75 Triples is a lot , again Manny has 18 for his career .......Hustle counts !

Don't look at Rice's grounded into double numbers then.

[zen archer]

and he was the most dangerous outfielder to run on in the American League.

Balderdash! He must be confusing Rice with his teammate Evans. Or Dave Parker (oops, wrong league.) Even Reggie had a better arm, though getting to the ball was another matter.

Rice had 137 assists !

[zen archer]

The key in that stat is HITS you just don't see guys hitting that many HR's and 200 hits....i just looked up Manny's Career Stats and he has never had a 200 hit year !!!!!..NEVER

So what? He WALKS more and also usually misses 10 games a year. He also has had hit for a much higher average than Rice, higher OBP, slugs more. He's also hit a lot more HRs lifetime than Rice. I don't mean to belittle Rice's career, but there are more important things than having 200 hits in a year when it comes to being a great hitter.

All i am saying is that it is impressive to hit 35 plus HR and put up 200 hits , lets see Ichiro do that.

Yesterday at the press conference they asked Jim about his OBP and he said ..."The Mailman Walks"......nuff said!

Edited January 13, 2009 by zen archer

[Quincy]

The Giants were peaking when the WS started.

Then why did they lose game 1 5-0 and game 2 5-1?

But we had a dead soild defense [with infielders Matt Williams, Robby Thompson and Will Clark coupled with OF'ers Brett Butler and Kevin Mitchell] and a pitching staff that got the job done most days helped the Giants to a 90-72 season record.

You had a deep bullpen, I'll give you that. But Oakland had a good one too.

[Quincy]

and he was the most dangerous outfielder to run on in the American League.

Balderdash! He must be confusing Rice with his teammate Evans. Or Dave Parker (oops, wrong league.) Even Reggie had a better arm, though getting to the ball was another matter.

Rice had 137 assists !

Dwight Evans had 157!

Assists are one of those stats where a lot of funny things can happen. If someone like Clemente, Vlad, Dwight Evans has a great arm runners are less likely to run, thus resulting in fewer opportunities for the outfielder to get an assist. There are certain years where guys who have average to less than average arms actually run up high assist totals, simply because the 3rd base coach sends more runners knowing that the OF has a subpar arm. Also Rice played in a short LF. The distance from LF to home is shorter than any other AL park.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Quincy

[zen archer]

Manny in 16 years has 1667 strikeouts and has hit into 230 double plays

Rice in 16 years had 1423 strikeouts and hit into 315 double plays .

BUT remember Rice suffered his last 3 seasons with bad knees.

Those are interesting stats....so Rice hit into on average 5 more double plays per year than Manny .

Edited January 14, 2009 by zen archer

[zen archer]

and he was the most dangerous outfielder to run on in the American League.

Balderdash! He must be confusing Rice with his teammate Evans. Or Dave Parker (oops, wrong league.) Even Reggie had a better arm, though getting to the ball was another matter.

Rice had 137 assists !

Dwight Evans had 157!

Assists are one of those stats where a lot of funny things can happen. If someone like Clemente, Vlad, Dwight Evans has a great arm runners are less likely to run, thus resulting in fewer opportunities for the outfielder to get an assist. There are certain years where guys who have average to less than average arms actually run up high assist totals, simply because the 3rd base coach sends more runners knowing that the OF has a subpar arm. Also Rice played in a short LF. The distance from LF to home is shorter than any other AL park.

Dewey is my Favorite Right Fielder of ALL TIME .....i am just posting stats that are a surprising i never knew Jim had that

many assist.

[WorldB3]

i like that rickey had 3K hits and 2K walks

Impressive

He was 3 HRs short of 300 for his carer. .

As for stolen bases if you came up now and played 14 years and stole 100 bases every year you still would be behind Henderson.

Growing up in the Bay Area half kids in little league tried to emulate his crouch stance.

Best lead off hitter of all time.

Edited January 14, 2009 by WorldB3

[PHILLYQ]

and he was the most dangerous outfielder to run on in the American League.

Balderdash! He must be confusing Rice with his teammate Evans. Or Dave Parker (oops, wrong league.) Even Reggie had a better arm, though getting to the ball was another matter.

Rice had 137 assists !

Dwight Evans had 157!

Assists are one of those stats where a lot of funny things can happen. If someone like Clemente, Vlad, Dwight Evans has a great arm runners are less likely to run, thus resulting in fewer opportunities for the outfielder to get an assist. There are certain years where guys who have average to less than average arms actually run up high assist totals, simply because the 3rd base coach sends more runners knowing that the OF has a subpar arm. Also Rice played in a short LF. The distance from LF to home is shorter than any other AL park.

There was one year that Dave Winfield, playing right field for the Yankees, had a ton of assists. The next year? Hardly any, because nobody tried to take an extra base on him.