2008-2009 Hot Stove Thread

[Matthew]

Talk about super cool! I'm watching a replay of Don Larson's perfect game. It's very interesting to see the 1950s commercials, how they played the game, no stepping out after ever pitch, no posturing, no "flash," just playing the game. I hope the MLB Network shows more games from the 1950-1960s. The quality of the MLB Network seems high, looks like this will be the place to be for information -- supposedly their game night will last eight hours during the season.

[papsrus]

Talk about super cool! I'm watching a replay of Don Larson's perfect game. It's very interesting to see the 1950s commercials, how they played the game, no stepping out after ever pitch, no posturing, no "flash," just playing the game. I hope the MLB Network shows more games from the 1950-1960s. The quality of the MLB Network seems high, looks like this will be the place to be for information -- supposedly their game night will last eight hours during the season.

Oh man. I forgot about that. Gotta run now and check it out! thanks ...

[Dan Gould]

If you're not sure if your cable provider offers it and what channel to go to, check out their website

http://www.mlbnetwork.com

enter your zip code and you'll get the channel number, if your provider has it.

What I like about the plan for gamenight broadcasts is that, since its owned by MLB, they can do "look-ins" for as long as they want to during the broadcast. ESPN is contractually limited in how long they can broadcast a local feed nationally. And I assume that in March there will be more ST games, and also some sort of news broadcast in the mornings once the season starts. That would be a nice way of getting baseball highlights without the hockey and basketball that ESPN will lead with, especially during the interminable playoffs.

In the meantime, yeah, I am curious what they'll run from years past. Would Reggie's rise to prominence mark the end of the "no flash" era? I seem to recall a 1967 Red Sox game with home runs being "run out" and no showing up the pitcher.

[Matthew]

In the meantime, yeah, I am curious what they'll run from years past. Would Reggie's rise to prominence mark the end of the "no flash" era? I seem to recall a 1967 Red Sox game with home runs being "run out" and no showing up the pitcher.

It seems to me, it was Charlie Finley's Oakland A's that brought in the "flash" and showtime feel to baseball, with Reggie being a major player in all of that. Poor Billy Martin, he never had a chance going against Jackson, no wonder they had such conflict -- the "Yankee Way" and the "Showtime A's" were ages apart.

[Chalupa]

Ha Ha. Still think this was a great signing?

Sources: Dodgers still look to move Jones

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3807591

Jones signed a two-year, $36.2 million deal with the Dodgers before last season, but struggled from the outset and in 209 at-bats he hit just .158 with three homers, 33 hits and 76 strikeouts. By season's end, he was away from the team.

If the Dodgers can't find a trade partner, they are likely to soon release Jones -- a borderline Hall of Fame player with 371 career homers -- and he would be free to sign elsewhere for the $400,000 minimum.

Borderline HoF ??????

[Quincy]

Would Reggie's rise to prominence mark the end of the "no flash" era? I seem to recall a 1967 Red Sox game with home runs being "run out" and no showing up the pitcher.

To me it's the endless stepping out of the batter's box that drives me nuts. I recall George Foster doing it but only in retaliation of Al Hrabosky's stalking around in the back of the mound to get psyched. Not to say he didn't do it elsewhere, that's just the only at bat I remember. I don't remember Reggie being one to step out of the batter's box endlessly. I have distinct memories of him leaning back while in the box spitting sunflower seeds.

When Nomar started all of that obsessive compulsive disorder batting glove nonsense MLB should have put a stop to it then (for all the players who stepped out), along with getting on pitchers to pick up the pace.

[tkeith]

When Nomar started all of that obsessive compulsive disorder batting glove nonsense MLB should have put a stop to it then (for all the players who stepped out), along with getting on pitchers to pick up the pace.

Mike Hargrove... the human rain delay. By comparison, Nomar was in a hurry to get in the box.

[Dan Gould]

Would Reggie's rise to prominence mark the end of the "no flash" era? I seem to recall a 1967 Red Sox game with home runs being "run out" and no showing up the pitcher.

To me it's the endless stepping out of the batter's box that drives me nuts. I recall George Foster doing it but only in retaliation of Al Hrabosky's stalking around in the back of the mound to get psyched. Not to say he didn't do it elsewhere, that's just the only at bat I remember. I don't remember Reggie being one to step out of the batter's box endlessly. I have distinct memories of him leaning back while in the box spitting sunflower seeds.

When Nomar started all of that obsessive compulsive disorder batting glove nonsense MLB should have put a stop to it then (for all the players who stepped out), along with getting on pitchers to pick up the pace.

That to me isn't "flash" - its Reggie tossing the bat and standing at the box admiring his shot. That used to result in some chin music next go-round, but eventually that ended, too. But up to some point in the 60s/early 70s, home run trots became slower and slower, culminating in garbage like the "one flap down" thing.

But yeah, batters staying in the box and guys running around the bases after home runs are two things long gone from the game, but on display in these old broadcasts.

That and a lot of hats in the crowd.

[Matthew]

LOL!! One Flap Down I haven't thought of Jeffrey Leonard in a long time! I was studying in Berkeley during that Giants team heyday, and it was a fun team to watch, plus, Candlestick was not that bad of a park, just got freezing cold.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Matthew

[Dave James]

Chuck Knoblauch was the worst I can remember when it comes to stepping out to rearrange batting gloves. I don't know why MLB just doesn't pass a rule that says once your in the box, you stay in the box. That way, unless you call timeout, you're at the mercy of the pitcher. What a waste of time.

Up over and out.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Dave James

[Dave James]

LOL!! One Flap Down I haven't thought of Jeffrey Leonard in a long time! I was studying in Berkeley during that Giants team heyday, and it was a fun team to watch, plus, Candlestick was not that bad of a park, just got freezing cold.

Leonard had the greatest nickname in the history of baseball. He was known as "Penitentiary Face".

In the early '80's, I made the mistake of going to Candlestick (or Windlestick as they used to call it) for an afternoon game dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. Vida Blue was pitching for the Giants and Steve Carlton for the Phillies. Sounds like a great match-up, but it got so cold around the third inning, my brain shut down. I have no recollection of much of anything after that.

Up over and out.

[Quincy]

That to me isn't "flash" - its Reggie tossing the bat and standing at the box admiring his shot. That used to result in some chin music next go-round, but eventually that ended, too. But up to some point in the 60s/early 70s, home run trots became slower and slower, culminating in garbage like the "one flap down" thing.

But yeah, batters staying in the box and guys running around the bases after home runs are two things long gone from the game, but on display in these old broadcasts.

That and a lot of hats in the crowd.

Oh yeah, what I was complaining about is the opposite of flash.

And how could I forget about Hargrove? Well, maybe all those years in Texas & Cleveland with no playoff appearances has something to do with it!

[Quincy]

In the early '80's, I made the mistake of going to Candlestick (or Windlestick as they used to call it) for an afternoon game dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. Vida Blue was pitching for the Giants and Steve Carlton for the Phillies. Sounds like a great match-up, but it got so cold around the third inning, my brain shut down. I have no recollection of much of anything after that.

Up over and out.

It might have been this one.

[Dave James]

I believe you may be correct. The month and year are right on. Nice to finally see who won after all these years.

Up over and out.

[martini]

LOL!! One Flap Down I haven't thought of Jeffrey Leonard in a long time! I was studying in Berkeley during that Giants team heyday, and it was a fun team to watch, plus, Candlestick was not that bad of a park, just got freezing cold.

I have fond memories of J. Leonard--as a kid, when I hit a HR (once in a blue moon), I went "one flap down." I'm still thankful that I didn't get my ass kicked by one of the parents. I deserved it, actually.

I lived in Fremont for awhile in the early '80s. My Dad used to give us the choice to see either A's games or Giants's games. The ease with which one could take BART to Oakland from Fremont, combined with the warmer weather, the fact that Billy Martin (A's manager) was always a show in himself, and that damn near every game Rickey Henderson would steal a bag or two (or three) made it an easy choice. Hmm, "Billy Ball" or sitting in the cold watching Johnnie Lemaster? We hung with the A's. I just wish Mike Norris (A's pitcher) would have layed off of the blow. That kid had a future.

[tkeith]

In the early '80's, I made the mistake of going to Candlestick (or Windlestick as they used to call it) for an afternoon game dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. Vida Blue was pitching for the Giants and Steve Carlton for the Phillies. Sounds like a great match-up, but it got so cold around the third inning, my brain shut down. I have no recollection of much of anything after that.

Up over and out.

It might have been this one.

Jim Wohlford batting cleanup and Joe Strain batting sixth... hard to believe Philly could pull that one out.

[BERIGAN]

In the early '80's, I made the mistake of going to Candlestick (or Windlestick as they used to call it) for an afternoon game dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. Vida Blue was pitching for the Giants and Steve Carlton for the Phillies. Sounds like a great match-up, but it got so cold around the third inning, my brain shut down. I have no recollection of much of anything after that.

Up over and out.

It might have been this one.

Jim Wohlford batting cleanup and Joe Strain batting sixth... hard to believe Philly could pull that one out.

What I recall about Vida Blue at the end of his career, was he threw fastballs, and nothing else! Anyone remember that, or why that was?(Bad elbow?)

[Matthew]

If I remember correctly, Vida Blue never had a curve ball, just something the bent a little bit, but that was his one off-speed pitch. Curve balls and off-speed pitches just wasn't his bag. I remember a Gaylord Perry vs. Vida Blue game when Perry was with the Padres that was a big deal, back when both were having a strong year, and it was an enjoyable game. Perry never had trouble with the curve ball .

[Quincy]

What I recall about Vida Blue at the end of his career, was he threw fastballs, and nothing else! Anyone remember that, or why that was?(Bad elbow?)

Finally a use for the mostly disappointing Neyer/James Guide To Pitchers.

Well, not really as there's no info about the end of his career. The book lists Blue's pitch selection as 1. Fastball 2. Curve 3. Change 4. Blue developed a slider in 1978. The sources are the 1972 book Vida and a 1979 Sporting News article.

Given he threw 312 innings at age 21 and a bunch more years of heavy use it's not hard to imagine he had elbow or shoulder trouble later! If the elbow (and I think that's right) one sure wouldn't want to throw the curve anymore. Once past 1980 he was below 200 IP and then he got caught up in the Pittsburgh drug trials.

I recall Bill James, then King Stathead writing when Vida was traded to the Royals he couldn't help but get all dreamy thinking "Vida Blue, oh boy we have Vida Blue!", even though in his head he knew he wasn't the player he once was. It is such a great name - symmetrical too.

[paul secor]

It seems to me, it was Charlie Finley's Oakland A's that brought in the "flash" and showtime feel to baseball, with Reggie being a major player in all of that. Poor Billy Martin, he never had a chance going against Jackson, no wonder they had such conflict -- the "Yankee Way" and the "Showtime A's" were ages apart.

Never felt that Billy Martin had anything to do with the "Yankee Way", if there ever was such a thing. Bill James nailed him down pretty well when he speculated years ago on what Billy Martin would be doing if baseball didn't exist - 5 to 10 for manslaughter.

I'm a Yankee fan, but never bought into Reggie Jackson's hot dog antics and self aggrandizement. I remember the late Catfish Hunter saying something to the effect that Reggie was a great guy who'd give you the shirt off his back. And then hold a press conference the next day to tell everyone about it.

I do remember one Reggie moment that I treasure. In 1981, John Denny was pitching for Cleveland and knocked Reggie on his ass with an inside head high pitch. Reggie got up, hit a homer on the next pitch, and celebrated on his way around the bases. Denny went at him when he crossed home plate, and even though Denny was known as a strong guy, Reggie took him down and pinned him on the ground. They both were ejected, and I can still see Reggie laughing all the way to the dugout and clubhouse.

[PHILLYQ]

LOL!! One Flap Down I haven't thought of Jeffrey Leonard in a long time! I was studying in Berkeley during that Giants team heyday, and it was a fun team to watch, plus, Candlestick was not that bad of a park, just got freezing cold.

Leonard had the greatest nickname in the history of baseball. He was known as "Penitentiary Face".

In the early '80's, I made the mistake of going to Candlestick (or Windlestick as they used to call it) for an afternoon game dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. Vida Blue was pitching for the Giants and Steve Carlton for the Phillies. Sounds like a great match-up, but it got so cold around the third inning, my brain shut down. I have no recollection of much of anything after that.

Up over and out.

IIRC, Leonard was known as Prison Face when the sportswriters called him Jeff Leonard. He insisted at one point in being called Jeffrey, at which point the sportswriters took to calling him'Correctional Institute Face'!

[BERIGAN]

What I recall about Vida Blue at the end of his career, was he threw fastballs, and nothing else! Anyone remember that, or why that was?(Bad elbow?)

Finally a use for the mostly disappointing Neyer/James Guide To Pitchers.

Well, not really as there's no info about the end of his career. The book lists Blue's pitch selection as 1. Fastball 2. Curve 3. Change 4. Blue developed a slider in 1978. The sources are the 1972 book Vida and a 1979 Sporting News article.

Given he threw 312 innings at age 21 and a bunch more years of heavy use it's not hard to imagine he had elbow or shoulder trouble later! If the elbow (and I think that's right) one sure wouldn't want to throw the curve anymore. Once past 1980 he was below 200 IP and then he got caught up in the Pittsburgh drug trials.

I recall Bill James, then King Stathead writing when Vida was traded to the Royals he couldn't help but get all dreamy thinking "Vida Blue, oh boy we have Vida Blue!", even though in his head he knew he wasn't the player he once was. It is such a great name - symmetrical too.

Wow, 2 responses to what Vida Blue, threw!!! As a kid, don't ask me why, I liked to say very quickly to my non baseball friends, blue, blue, vida Blue! Hey, I was a kid!

It's funny though that I recalled his later years not having any pitch but a fastball(it seemed) I didn't pay much attention to the ways pitchers mixed stuff up, but it just stood out like a sore thumb with him....gee, a curve or a slider would sure come in handy in the 5th or 6th inning.

Edited January 5, 2009 by BERIGAN

[Quincy]

As a kid, don't ask me why, I liked to say very quickly to my non baseball friends, blue, blue, vida Blue! Hey, I was a kid!

I think he's deserving of a better band. He should sue!

All Music Guide entry for Vida Blue.

[Chalupa]

Rays sign Pat Burrell for 2 years for $16m. Good signing for them.

[PHILLYQ]

Rays sign Pat Burrell for 2 years for $16m. Good signing for them.

They get some pop and experience at a price that's not hefty and it's only for two years. Looks like a smart move on their part.