2008-2009 Hot Stove Thread

[Tim McG]

Rumors have Rafael Furcal [or Edgar Renteria....depending on the source] going to the Giants to play SS.

So we wait and see.

[Brad]

They were mentioning on WFAN in NYC last night that CC might be heading for the Angels and that Pettite has contacted Torre about pitching for the Dodgers.

[Matthew]

It makes sense about CC, from all that I've read, he really wants to play in his home state of California (I mean, who wouldn't?). Pettite might be a good fit with the Dodgers, sign him to a one or two year deal and see what happens. He'd also be a good influence on the younger pitchers.

[zen archer]

The Red Sox have signed 2008 MVP Dustin Pedroia to a six-year, $40.5 million extension, with a team option for a seventh season. The deal locks up the second baseman’s services through 2014 (2015 if the option is exercised). WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford has learned that the team option is only good if he is with the Red Sox. If he gets traded, the option is not valid. According to the Boston Herald, Pedroia will receive a $1.5 million signing bonus along with the following annual salaries:

2009 - $1.5 million

2010 - $3.5 million

2011 - $5.5 million

2012 - $8 million

2013 - $10 million

2014 - $10 million

The club option in 2015, according to the Herald, is for $11 million, with a $500,000 buyout.

[Dan Gould]

This is a good deal, they've bought out the arbitration years plus at least two years of free agency of a guy who is the reigning MVP and was the RoY.

The fact that they did this with Pedroia and haven't with Youkilis shows how much they value young talent. Youk is still a couple of years from free agency, but he's also turning 30 next season. Its unfortunate, but the time he spent on the Pawtucket shuffle, waiting to take over from Billy Mueller, took away what might have been prime seasons of both production and earnings. Given that he will be 32(?) when he reaches free agency - well its just unfortunate that his first big contract will also be his last, and it will probably stretch into some portion of his decline phase.

[Tim McG]

Edgar Renteria is signed by the Giants for a two year deal.

.290 BA and a good infielder ta boot.

My guys got a LH middle reliever last week from Colorado.

Now all the Gigantes need to do is pick up Sabathia [though Yankees will probably throw a suitcase of money at him; maybe his West Coast ties will motivate him to go with SF] and/or Rafael Furcal and maybe they can turn this team around, eh?

[tkeith]

Edgar Renteria is signed by the Giants for a two year deal.

.290 BA and a good infielder ta boot.

My guys got a LH middle reliever last week from Colorado.

Now all the Gigantes need to do is pick up Sabathia [though Yankees will probably throw a suitcase of money at him; maybe his West Coast ties will motivate him to go with SF] and/or Rafael Furcal and maybe they can turn this team around, eh?

You thinking they'd move one of those guys to 2B? I'd love to see them get Sabathia, just because I want a baseball player to give the finger to both the Skanks and the union in one shot. I doubt it will happen, though.

[Tim McG]

Edgar Renteria is signed by the Giants for a two year deal.

.290 BA and a good infielder ta boot.

My guys got a LH middle reliever last week from Colorado.

Now all the Gigantes need to do is pick up Sabathia [though Yankees will probably throw a suitcase of money at him; maybe his West Coast ties will motivate him to go with SF] and/or Rafael Furcal and maybe they can turn this team around, eh?

You thinking they'd move one of those guys to 2B? I'd love to see them get Sabathia, just because I want a baseball player to give the finger to both the Skanks and the union in one shot. I doubt it will happen, though.

Yup.

It worked with A-Rod so I'm thinking the same could be true in SF.

We need bats.

[Dan Gould]

What the fuck is the matter with the current members of the HoF?

Once again Ron Santo was denied. Ten Hall of Famers who were 3B, and he doesn't qualify? Absolutely infuriating.

[Matthew]

What the fuck is the matter with the current members of the HoF?

Once again Ron Santo was denied. Ten Hall of Famers who were 3B, and he doesn't qualify? Absolutely infuriating.

...if Santo gets in, then make room for Dave Parker, Al Oliver, Andre Dawson, Bert Blyleven, Steve Garvey, et.al., they're all on the same HOF level.

[Dan Gould]

First of all, Blyleven belongs on the merits. Of that there can be no doubt. For his performance relative to the rest of the league, his Ks and his shutouts.

And Santo may have similar numbers to Garvey or whoever, but he played a different position, a position woefully under-represented in the Hall. As a third baseman (where his defense was much more important than Garvey's was at 1B), he belongs. Compare him to the third basemen who are in and tell me he doesn't belong.

[tkeith]

What the fuck is the matter with the current members of the HoF?

Once again Ron Santo was denied. Ten Hall of Famers who were 3B, and he doesn't qualify? Absolutely infuriating.

...if Santo gets in, then make room for Dave Parker, Al Oliver, Andre Dawson, Bert Blyleven, Steve Garvey, et.al., they're all on the same HOF level.

Dawson and Blyleven belong (as does Dale Murphy) and a legitimate argument could also be made for Garvey. Santo belongs.

[Dave James]

Whoop de friggin' doo. ESPN is reporting the CC Sabathia is all but signed by the Yankees. To sweeten the pot, they added a seventh year to the deal, making it worth $160 million. Let the games begin.

Up over and out.

[Matthew]

Whoop de friggin' doo. ESPN is reporting the CC Sabathia is all but signed by the Yankees. To sweeten the pot, they added a seventh year to the deal, making it worth $160 million. Let the games begin.

Up over and out.

Yankees really had no choice on this, they needed to get CC to get fans off their back. Still, I'm not completely sold on Sabathia, it's always iffy on how players react when getting to the Yankees, and their pitching staff is still weak -- look at it this way, will CC win more games in 2009 than Mussina won in 2008? Probably not, but even if he does, where do the other wins come from on that staff?

[Dan Gould]

If they add Burnett or Lowe, the pitching is improved. The pitching is improved if Wang is healthy. The pitching is improved if Joba stays healthy and starts. In the short term, this is a smart move that should please Yankee fans. But the history of 100 million dollar contracts for pitchers, plus Sabathia's girth and workload, suggests that this will be a bad contract, perhaps a very bad one.

But as far as their pitching next year goes, it will be better. The real issue is what their offense will look like. Abreu and Giambi gone takes out a big chunk of the team OBP (and a smaller chunk of the SLG). Swisher isn't the answer, even if he has a bounce back year. A-Rod seems likely to have a better year, if only because of his pattern of MVP season, good but not nearly as great season, MVP season ...

But Jeter looked a lot like a player in decline, Matsui is coming off a lost season and now has two knees surgically repaired, and Posada has three more years to go after losing his season with a bum shoulder. And he was unlikely to repeat his 2007 fluke season anyway.

So what are we left with? Without another bat (heaven help us if they decide that they can't allow Teixeira to go to Boston), with the players who are leaving and the aging of the remainder, this isn't an offense that will go back to a 900 run juggernaut. They could have an even worse record in games in which they don't score more than 4 runs.

[Matthew]

Those are a lot of "ifs." I would not be surprised at another third place finish for the Yankees next year.

[Dan Gould]

Those are a lot of "ifs." I would not be surprised at another third place finish for the Yankees next year.

If they sign Teixeira, they'll be very dangerous. If they stay healthy and the 35 year old contingent has bounce-back years, they'll be dangerous.

Otherwise, I can see what you see.

[Dave James]

I guess I'd rather have Sabathia with all the question marks than not have him at all. Buster Olney says he's a great, even unifying clubhouse presence, and I think the Yanks could stand that. For sure there's pressure aplenty in New York, but I think if anyone has the chops to accommodate that, it's a laid back guy like Sabathia. Look for the Yanks to add Lowe, Burnett or Sheets as well. Lots of questions there too, but with the retirement of Mussina and the uncertainty surrounding Pettite, they need another starter. With regard to Chamberlain, I've thought from day one that it's a mistake to put him in the rotation. He should be filling the same set-up role Mariano Rivera filled when John Wetteland was the closer. Then, when Rivera is no longer the guy, he can slide right into that spot with a minimum of transitional issues. The kid has electric stuff, but I don't think he's got the body to deliver 200 innings without breaking down. Joba's place is in the pen.

Agree that the offense is a problem. This is not a young team. Even if A-Rod bounces back, too many other guys are on the downside. Their minor league system is full of decent pitching prospects, but few position players with real big league potential. Who knows, maybe if they bulk up on pitching, they won't need the kind of offense they've fielded in the past. I really like the idea of adding Texiera, but I just don't see the Angels letting him get away. Outside of him, there isn't anyone I'd sell the farm to get. I think Swisher will surprise. Plus, I really like his versatility.

Up over and out.

[zen archer]

I guess I'd rather have Sabathia with all the question marks than not have him at all. Buster Olney says he's a great, even unifying clubhouse presence, and I think the Yanks could stand that. For sure there's pressure aplenty in New York, but I think if anyone has the chops to accommodate that, it's a laid back guy like Sabathia. Look for the Yanks to add Lowe, Burnett or Sheets as well. Lots of questions there too, but with the retirement of Mussina and the uncertainty surrounding Pettite, they need another starter. With regard to Chamberlain, I've thought from day one that it's a mistake to put him in the rotation. He should be filling the same set-up role Mariano Rivera filled when John Wetteland was the closer. Then, when Rivera is no longer the guy, he can slide right into that spot with a minimum of transitional issues. The kid has electric stuff, but I don't think he's got the body to deliver 200 innings without breaking down. Joba's place is in the pen.

Agree that the offense is a problem. This is not a young team. Even if A-Rod bounces back, too many other guys are on the downside. Their minor league system is full of decent pitching prospects, but few position players with real big league potential. Who knows, maybe if they bulk up on pitching, they won't need the kind of offense they've fielded in the past. I really like the idea of adding Texiera, but I just don't see the Angels letting him get away. Outside of him, there isn't anyone I'd sell the farm to get. I think Swisher will surprise. Plus, I really like his versatility.

Up over and out.

Well don't always believe Buster Olney and even Gammons (who i like) i remember them saying how great Kevin Brown

was and Gammons went so far as to say he would win the Cy Young award.

What happened to all the young yankee pitching ?....like Hughes , are they giving up on these kids?

[zen archer]

Also remember Sabathia went 0–2 with a 10.45 ERA against us in the ALCS in 07 . One victory from him and the Indians go to the WS and maybe win it !

[Dave James]

I don't think the Yanks are giving up on either Hughes or Kennedy. I think last year too much was expected of them too soon. Hughes is playing in Arizona and by all accounts is throwing bee-bees. Kennedy is also having a good run in winter ball. I still think they both have a future in pinstripes. They have some other pitchers who may make the transition this year. One of them is a Mark Melancon, who has been touted as the next Joba Chamberlain.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Interesting claim by Ken Davidoff in his Newsday blog - he says the three year opt out clause isn't about getting more money at the age of 31, its about a marriage of convenience between the Yanks and Sabathia. In three years, the Giants disastrous contract with Zito will have only two more years to run. At that point, they could surely pay market rate to bring the hometown boy back home, where he wanted to play all along.

Meanwhile, knowing the likelihood of that happening, the Yankees are really hoping just to get the next three seasons out of Sabathia while he is healthy and presumably effective. So the risk the Yankees have boils down to Sabathia getting hurt in the next three years, because then he'd probably not opt out and the Yanks would be on the hook for a Hamton-like contract. But if all goes according to plan, the Yankees just bought themselves time to bring up those young pitchers Dave mentioned a little slower, but theoretically have them ready when Sabathia bolts.

This deal didn't bother me that much before I learned about the opt-out clause, now it does bother me a little. And if the Yankees count on Sabathia bolting, I can see them going all-in on Teixeira to get him, too.

And that would royally suck.

[Dan Gould]

So how do Mets fans feel about adding K-Rod and J.J. Putz? Makes a huge difference in the bullpen - but they still have holes in the rotation, IMO.

On the other hand, should they somehow overcome the last two years and make the playoffs, they might have Billy Wagner back for October, given the timing of his surgery and the 12 month rehab.

Potentially, Minaya has done more to improve his roster than Cashman has done for his, at least right now.

[BERIGAN]

What the fuck is the matter with the current members of the HoF?

Once again Ron Santo was denied. Ten Hall of Famers who were 3B, and he doesn't qualify? Absolutely infuriating.

...if Santo gets in, then make room for Dave Parker, Al Oliver, Andre Dawson, Bert Blyleven, Steve Garvey, et.al., they're all on the same HOF level.

Dawson and Blyleven belong (as does Dale Murphy) and a legitimate argument could also be made for Garvey. Santo belongs.

I agree as well. I never liked Garvey much, but he was truly a clutch hitter, a guy you hated to see up with the game on the line.

And you all know my broken record. How about a certian player who had 2472 hits??? 1389 RBIs??? 7 seasons hitting .300 or better? A guy that got more hits than Ozzie Smith, Jim Rice , Jeff Kent, Red Schoendienst, Dwight Evans, Mickey Mantle, Pie Traynor, Ryne Sandberg, Enos Slaughter, and many more.

More RBI's than Johnny Bench, Orlando Cepeda, Brooks Robinson, Johnny Mize, Mike Piazza, Hank Greenberg and many more. 4th on the all time list of RBI's for a switch hitter.

Oh yeah, and he was a catcher as well. 7 straight years he played in 150 or more games(one year he played in 161!!!)

And he wasn't even on the list of players eligiable for the HOF this year! Ted Simmons must have pissed off a lot of folks during his playing days....

[papsrus]

Edwin Jackson for Matt Joyce. Olney seems to think with Price ready to go into the starting rotation, the Rays unloaded an inconsistent pitcher just before his salary triggers kicked in and got a good player in return on the cheap, and that the move frees them up to grab a big name bat in a short-term deal.

Thoughts?