desertblues Posted October 29, 2003 Report Posted October 29, 2003 In addition to "Abilene", Hamilton IV had a pretty big crossover hit with his infamous "A Rose And A Baby Ruth" back in the day (a classic "teen" ballad). Thanks again for the great disc Jim, this was a blast! I knew I was in trouble when I realized that Sarah Vaughn was the 1st artist I instantly recognized! I'm kicking myself for not getting the Frank Strozier-I have that lp (though I haven't played it in years). Lem Winchester is one cat I will check out as a result of this test-and now I'll have to get the Morgan VJ Mosaic which I have postponed a few times. $$$ Quote
Noj Posted October 29, 2003 Report Posted October 29, 2003 ...Lem Winchester is one cat I will check out as a result of this test... Ditto that! Embarassingly enough I have the Lalo Schifrin on a cdr I got from a friend. Thanks again Jim R! Quote
Jim R Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Posted October 29, 2003 How come Ed Bickert has virtually disappeared from the catalogue? His Concords seem deleted. On CD Universe just "The Guitar Mastery of Ed Bickert" 'back ordered.' On Amazon UK the same disk, everything else 'limited availability'. Any thoughts on "The Guitar Mastery of Ed Bickert"? I just know Bickert from those Rosemery Clooney discs. Bev, I can't really explain the disappearance of Bickert's recordings. I've seen it happen with other artists, though (pretty tough to find many Jimmy Raney discs these days... at least where I shop). I can tell you, however, that Bickert has apparently retired from performing (not sure about recording, but my impression was that he was ceasing that too... could be wrong). GUITAR MASTERY is pretty nice. Not the best sound quality, to my ears, and not necessarily his best work, but quite good. Quote
DrJ Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) Jim, all I can say is you're taking all of this way differently than I meant it. I'm asking you, given the good faith and credibility I hope we have for each other after posting here and at the BN BB for so long, to just take what I said and what I'm saying now at face value, as I did your good natured sparring to draw me into the discussion in the first place. First, regarding the "grounding in reality" quote, what I MEANT was that you are talking, I feel, about a lot of possibles/theoreticals, but when it comes down to it, all the evidence I see to the contrary is that people - even very dedicated students of the instrument such as yourself - have a heck of a hard time identifying guitarists. I was saying, in essence, talk all you want about what MIGHT or COULD be done in terms of sonic possibilities, but we have here in front of us this blindfold test forum that demonstrates my point, with even you (who, I was trying to say but obviously failed miserably, has a very attuned and discerning ear in this area) misidentifying someone who I think one can make a case has one of the more identifiable guitar sounds (and to be honest I don't agree that it changed much in the later period, his phrasing and other things did but it still generally sounds like Grant Green). I would also point out that I could easily have chosen to be insulted by some of the things in your initial response to me. For example, I could have gotten offended at the fact that my initial comment about guitarists, which seems to have started all this, was taken way out of context. All I had said was that for ME, to MY ears, many don't have a very distinctive tone and so that spells disaster for ME PERSONALLY in trying to identify them blindfolded. You then generalized that to start a discussion about guitarists and their place in jazz and your perception that they are often stereotyped and in essence disrespected, and did your best to get me into that discussion with some of your own rather frank assertions and subsequent line-by-line dissection of my reply (which also entailed some pretty strong comments and challenges, or at least what look like confrontational phrases in the cold hard light of a BB - things like "Oh come on Tony," "pretty bold assertion," and others). But I just figured, I know Jim, I KNOW he's not trying to insult me, so it must just be that he feels passionately about all this and some of those things probably came across stronger than he intended/realized. It's true that I certainly didn't feel inclined to pull any punches when stating my own equally strongly-held opinions. I was the one, after all, who was drawn into a debate I really never intended to get into and I certainly felt I'd been placed a little on the defensive myself about my opinions. So again, please accept my statements at face value and also accept my CLEAR and UNEQUIVOCAL statement that nothing I have said was intended to be insulting or personal here. We simply disagree on many of the original points of discussion, in a big way, nothing more to it from my standpoint. Edited October 30, 2003 by DrJ Quote
Dan Gould Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Well, I'd say I did exceptionally poorly on this one, and I own five of the albums! #1-Well, I just might have to check more Guaraldi out, since I only have the Peanuts music. #2-I guess I got this partially right, since I said "not Bags" I believe the only Lem I have is the Argo LP with Ramsey Lewis, again I just might have to correct that. #3-As I listened to this track again, I tried to figure out why I made the ludicrous connection to Sweets Edison. I think it was the playfullness of Mogie on the theme as he circles around the tenor. But no excuses, I used to be known as Mogie Man and I have had this CD for a very long time. #4-all I can say to Jim is, has Stewart considered making an all-Brazillian date? Based on this cut, it ought to be killer #5-Of course, I have the Golson Mercury LP in its original form. I hate it when I realize I own something I can't recognize in a million years! #6-Not only do I have this, courtesty of Mr. R., but how could I fail to consider the likelihood that Jim would pick an Eddie Higgins tune? #7 didn't do much for me, and out of respect for Jim S., I have circularly filed the Harry Allen CD for all eternity #9, Strozier, yet another I own. And how come Coleman is so recognizable except to me? Kessell, Hawes, Eddie Harris-all names I should have investigated more by now ... Breakstone, well, I reallly should have taken the time to figure out the Monk tune, just so I could say I got one thing right. Sassy, well, I definitely suspected it was her but didn't actually verbalize it, so I really ought to get partial credit, right? Dex, well, of course Jim is right but when I hear sopranos I hate the tone so much I immediately tune out. And I have no excuse for not ID'ing The Good Life, considering the terrific versions I have from Mobley and Stitt and probably others, and on top of that, I have a burn of the Wilson LP floating around here somewhere. So, thanks again to Jim R. for kicking my ass but at the same time opening my ears to a number of people I have slept on, like Guaraldi, Winchester and Kessell. They should definitely be getting more attention from me in the future. Quote
Jim R Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Posted October 30, 2003 Tony, First of all, thank you for responding so calmly to my post. Remaining calm is something I've gotten better at over the years on bulletin boards, but I failed to do that yesterday. I was having a bad morning to begin with, tried to tell myself not to post angry... and failed to stifle myself. So, I apologize for that. I'm still a trifle frustrated about a few things, but some of that is based on misunderstandings in the way we interpret each others' statements. I think we were both guilty of that. At any rate, I think it's probably best to agree that we see things differently in some ways regarding guitar-related topics, and not try to hash it out any further. Bottom line is that I'm still hoping to get more folks (including you) interested in some artists I've enjoyed, and I'm glad to know that you're interested in checking out more Breakstone, for example. ============= Dan, Louis has not done an all-Brazilian session, but he has recorded a fair number of Brazilian tunes (mostly Jobim) over the years. Anyway, good idea- I've thought about that possibility myself a number of times. I met Louis once (in SF in '95, while he was on tour with George Shearing), but wasn't able to spend much time talking that night. If I'd had more time, this is something I probably would have suggested to him. Quote
RDK Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 To drift slightly off-topic for the moment, who's doing BFT 4? I'd like to throw my name into the hat for a near-future disc. I'm already compiling tunes hoping to expose, confuse, enlighten, and enflame... Quote
DrJ Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) I'm still a trifle frustrated about a few things Likewise I think we were both guilty of that but some of that is based on misunderstandings in the way we interpret each others' statements. Agreed At any rate, I think it's probably best to agree that we see things differently in some ways regarding guitar-related topics, and not try to hash it out any further. And agreed! Glad you feel this way, too. I think we pretty much get where we were each coming from now, we both over-read into what was being said, and I'm really glad to move on. I value your opinions a whole lot, and there's way too much other stuff we both feel similarly about to focus on this one difference! Edited October 30, 2003 by DrJ Quote
Jim R Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Posted October 30, 2003 (edited) To drift slightly off-topic for the moment, who's doing BFT 4? I'd like to throw my name into the hat for a near-future disc. I'm already compiling tunes hoping to expose, confuse, enlighten, and enflame... Oops, my bad. I turned the awesome power over to Mr. Sangrey about a week ago, and should have announced that, I guess. Thanks for reminding me, Ray. You deserve a shot at it soon too, IMO. Jim, use the power wisely... don't let it turn you to the DARK side! Edited October 30, 2003 by Jim R Quote
RDK Posted October 30, 2003 Report Posted October 30, 2003 Ahh... I can already envision Sangrey's disc as his very own Degobah. After training at the foot of the master, he has a peyote vision where he battles Mr. Henry Allen with his sax-saber only to leave Allen dead in the swamp, his mask burning away to reveal Getz' face underneath... or something like that... Quote
marcoliv Posted November 2, 2003 Report Posted November 2, 2003 HI, for me it was a great disc and a great experience too Lem Winchester/Louis Stewart caught my attention and i will look for some stuff from them. Eddie Higgins really impressed me and i have already managed to download 5 albums of him including 3 Venus releases so it seems that i will send in a near future a PM to Jim asking for Eddie´s coordinates thanks folks Marcus Oliveira Quote
mikeweil Posted November 2, 2003 Report Posted November 2, 2003 Thanks from me too, for the great disk! Like in BT # 2 there was a track from an album I own I didn't recognize: this time it was Jack Wilson playing The Good Life (so much 'bout me naming any item from my collection .... ). I bought that one many years ago as a Japanese LP, but somehow it didn't catch my attention as much as the Jack Wilson / Roy Ayers collaborations, which I really love. That Wilson has many faces/facets, lots of chops, and sometimes I'm not quite sure wether he really has a clear identity of his own because of his chops. I remember he developped an amazing facility playing two keyboards simultaneously and recorded this for Discovery, but suffered some serious accident with brain damage and had to re-learn all over - and succeeded! But I haven't heard much about him since this. Ed Bickert - have an LP of his on P.M.Records and knew him as a great Desmond sideman, but as I said I'm not that good at guessing guitarists. Guaraldi was great, a real good jazz pianist. I cherish his trios with Eddie Duran and recommend them to all of you. That Hampton Hawes is one of the few MPS productions of US pianists I never heard. Don Schlitten produced a handful of LPs for them, is this one of them? Hawes was one of the really deep blues players among jazz pianists. That Louis Stewart track leaves me with mixed feelings - I dig the fluent and effortless way he negotiates those changes, but I prefer tracks with a little more arrangement than just a head-impro-head scheme - as great as the impros are, it gets a little monotonous for me. That Lalo Schifrin / Eddie Harris thing is one to get for me - Lalo was real funky for a South American, even more than Joao Donato! But the real surprise of the test for me is Larry Goldings on the Harry Allen track - he hits a lot harder here than I know of him as a pianist - or organist -, and I like it! I ordered that CD and will post my comments ASAP. BTW - who's up next ??? Quote
Jim R Posted November 3, 2003 Author Report Posted November 3, 2003 Marcus, More details about Louis Stewart's work can be found in a recent thread here, started by Bev Stapleton a few days ago. ========= Mike, I just took a look at the booklet (primarily in Japanese) for the Hawes disc, and I see no mention of Schlitten. No formal credit (in english) is given to the producer. "Respects" are given to Hans Georg Brunner-Schwer, but the word "producer" is nowhere in the credits... As was mentioned above, Jim Sangrey is going to be leading test #4... Quote
mikeweil Posted November 3, 2003 Report Posted November 3, 2003 As was mentioned above, Jim Sangrey is going to be leading test #4... ... then let's prepare for master class! Quote
Brad Posted November 3, 2003 Report Posted November 3, 2003 With Jim doing the next one, if I get one track or less than one on these tests, I'll probably be getting less than that with #4 Quote
couw Posted November 3, 2003 Report Posted November 3, 2003 after checking with my inner eye and outer Karma I can tell you all that the first track of Jim Sangrey's test features George Coleman on tenor sax. :rsly: Quote
Jim R Posted November 3, 2003 Author Report Posted November 3, 2003 Love that avatar, couw. Very reminiscent of the BN screen saver. Quote
couw Posted November 3, 2003 Report Posted November 3, 2003 Love that avatar, couw. Very reminiscent of the BN screen saver. Thanks! It was a lazy weekend. I did a whole bunch. This one's for Parkertown: Quote
Jim R Posted November 3, 2003 Author Report Posted November 3, 2003 OUTSTANDING! I'd like to see the whole bunch- maybe you could start an "Animated BN covers" thread. (?) Quote
mikeweil Posted November 3, 2003 Report Posted November 3, 2003 after checking with my inner eye and outer Karma I can tell you all that the first track of Jim Sangrey's test features George Coleman on tenor sax. :rsly: ... and there won't be any Getz clones Quote
JSngry Posted November 3, 2003 Report Posted November 3, 2003 You guys give me WAAAAYYY too much credit. Quote
desertblues Posted November 4, 2003 Report Posted November 4, 2003 Now that the test is done, I'm playing Jim's disc for pure enjoyment and I have to add my praise for the Higgins track (#6)! This guy is amazing-another artist I was not familiar with (but will be now). Quote
Jim R Posted November 4, 2003 Author Report Posted November 4, 2003 Glad to hear that, Ray. Once again, for those who may be interested in checking Eddie out further: Eddie Higgins thread A link is provided to Bill Gallagher's execellent online discography. The CD of duets with Don Wilner is (was?) only available through Eddie, but his work for Sunnyside and Venus is out there. Some of those are also available through Eddie, and if he doesn't have the Venus titles, they can be had through Cadence (much cheaper than ordering from Japan). Quote
desertblues Posted November 6, 2003 Report Posted November 6, 2003 Thanks for the info, Jim! I wonder if that "Live At Bubba's" session with Lockjaw Davis is available? Sent you a pm. Quote
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