Sweets at the Haig

[P.D.]

Sweets at the Haig or the Inventive Mr. Edison has long been on my CD reissue wish list.

My wishes have been answered.. sort of.

A couple of months ago Jazz Factory announced a release of the album with three other tracks from an LA concert featuring Sweets with others.

Now Fresh Sounds is offering the " unedited" Sweets at the Haig, claiming all initial releases of this music had tracks shortend by excluding trumpet and piano choruses.. anybody know if this is true, and if so where did Freshsounds get their material.. it must have been authorised from the Pacific Jazz vaults.

I will have to check the times of each track on my LP to be sure.

Interesting confrontation as many on these boards think Disconforme and Fresh Sounds are in league with each other.. but these simultaneous releases would tend to point otherwise.

Edited October 27, 2003 by P.D.

[Dan Gould]

Do tell when you find out, PD. Sweets at the Haig is a fine LP, it would be nice to have longer tracks and more of them.

God, I may grow to love the European copyright laws!

[Larry Kart]

Dick Bock of Pacific Jazz was notorious for editing (and, in the further issues of the same performances, re-editing) material that probably would have been better left alone. Also, as Bill Perkins explained in a Cadence interview, apart from the decision to edit or not edit, Bock was a terrible editor in mechanical terms (i.e. in handling the tools of the trade) and in terms of being able to keep track of the form of a piece; thus some of the edits resulted in dropped bars. etc. This led to Perkins' getting into that end of the business himself, as a form of aid and self-defense; apparently Bock welcomed the help.

[P.D.]

Dan, I ordered the Fresh Sounds version. No extra tunes but supposedly the ones that are there, are restored to their " original" form. As Lawrence points out Bock was capable of several attempts at butcherey.. so who knows what and where these come from.

I know this record well from numerous playings of a Japanese LP. Once I play the disc I'll know if there is indeed something different.

The Jazz Factory lists three tracks from a concert wuith Benny Carter ( i think .. will have to re - check) they say nothing about restored tracks, therefore I think they will be from Bock manipulated issues.

[Roger Hiles]

From the Fresh Sounds web site:

"On original Lp and CD re-editions, Arnold Ross's four chorus piano solo on "Indiana" had been cut in half, "September in the Rain" had been shortened by the editing out of two choruses (one by Ross, one by Edison), while "This foolish things" had lost the second half of a solo chorus of piano. This Fresh Sound edition puts back all the choruses..."

Here's a track list comparing the FS track times with the Definitive release (in brackets):

1. September in the rain 6:32 [4:45]

2. 'S wonderful 3:54 [3:54]

3. Just you, just me 3:51 [3:52]

4. Indiana 5:44 [4:47]

5. Pennies from heaven 6:18 [6:18]

6. These foolish things 7:23 [6:10]

7. Tea for two 6:58 [6:59]

In addition, the Definitive release has added three tracks from the Buddy Rich All-stars (with Edison, Rich, Benny Carter, Georgie Auld, Milt Bernhardt, Bob Lawson, Jimmy Rowles, and John Simmons):

Let's fall in love [2:47]

Me and my Jaguar [3:48]

Just blues [6:27]

I think it's great that the extra material is finally seeing the light of day. It would be better if PJ or Mosaic were doing it, but at least this gets us a chance to hear it.

It also reminds us that in 7 years, the whole 1950s jazz scene will be in public domain in Europe. How many lost treasures will be coming our way via Classics or Fresh Sounds or Definitive? What will this mean for the jazz reissue biz in the U.S.?

[P.D.]

I thought the Buddy Rich's were a concert, but they are taken from a verve release.. The Swingin' Buddy Rich.

A Definite rip off

But

It's verve

and at least Definitive try to fill up the CD with relevant material.

Well the Fresh Sounds is on its way.. Still would like to know where they got the unedited tapes.. if they have similar sources which allows them to restore other bits of Bock Butcherey.. especially the Gil Evans PJ's.. more power to them.

If they can do it.. it should be done here.

[P.D.]

From the Fresh Sound issue notes.. by Alun Morgan

"Sometime in 1957 Dick Bock visited London and I was invited to have Lunch with him. During the meal I asked if any more material by Edison at the Haig was available to be added to the four titles he had issued as a 10" LP, to make it a 12" release. He told me there was no more material available, yet some time later Pacific Jazz PJ11 was released with three new tunes added.. Tea for Two,Just You Just Me, 'Swonderful.

When I first played the new issue I was delighted to have the extra tracks, but something had happened to September in the Rain, Indiana and these Foolish things........"

The details are listed in the post above by Roger

I only ever had the 12" version so was not really aware that the earlier 10" had more music on it.

The fresh Sound uses the original 10" issue to correct the problem.. we don't know if the three " new" tracks were Bocked.

The recording is good for a club date. If you were happy with the LP you should have no problems with this

I'm glad that I held off from the Jazz Factory version for the Fresh Sounds

Edited November 1, 2003 by P.D.

[Guest ariceffron]

lawrence-- how do you know something so specific as that about bock and PJazz. that is interesting info. do you have any more interesting jazz info like that.

[Larry Kart]

I know about Bock's editing habits in part because the product that he released over the years bore the marks of it. Also, as I recall, knowledgable people--musicians, other fans-- would say something about it from time to time. Finally, Bill Perkins spoke about it directly in a mid'-90s Cadence interview. As for other interesting jazz info "like that" that I might have, are you, as they say, vibing me? A whole lot of people here know (e.g. Christiern and Chuck Nessa), or think they know, a whole lot of things. You'll have to be more specific. Or is it just gossip you're looking for?