Dizzy Gillespie Big Band

[DukeCity]

I was reading about Miles Davis working in Dizzy's big band in 1946 (or maybe early '47). According to Ted Gioia's book, the trumpet section at the time was Davis, Fats Navarro, Freddie Webster and Kenny Dorham!

But jazzdisco.org lists sessions from '46 and '47 with a completely different section (with the exception of Dorham).

What gives? Can anyone shed some light on this?

[John L]

Miles was in Billy Eckstine's band in late 46 until it broke up in January 47. It makes sense that Miles might have done some work in Diz's band after that time, before Bird came back to New York in the Spring and set up his classic quintet. But I don't know of any recordings.

Miles apparently is present in Diz's big band during the private recordings from 1948 that also include Bird. But only Bird solos and heads were recorded on this date, and in extremely bad sound.

[Niko]

this navarro chronology

http://csis.pace.edu/~varden/navarro/chrono.html

says

1945 July Navarro may have participated for a short time in Gillespie's first big band.

1947 April May have rehearsed with Gillespie's big band.

so that doesn't make the trumpet section a bit less likely (plus there are numerous other gigs listed for late 1946/early 1947...) but of course this doesn't proof anything

[BluesFan]

I was reading about Miles Davis working in Dizzy's big band in 1946 (or maybe early '47). According to Ted Gioia's book, the trumpet section at the time was Davis, Fats Navarro, Freddie Webster and Kenny Dorham!

What gives? Can anyone shed some light on this?

I pulled out the recordings I have of Dizzy's big bands.

Algo Bueno: Complete Bluebird/Musicraft Recordings & The Pleyel Concert (Definitive Records DR2CD 11138) has recordings from 1946-1949. Kenny Dorham is listed for 1946.07.09 only; none of the others appear.

Bebop Enters Sweden 1947-49 (Dragon DRCD 318) is an airshot from 1948.02.02 in Stockholm; none of them are listed.

Don't have the time to dig into the books right now.

Bryan

[brownie]

According to Ted Gioia's book, the trumpet section at the time was Davis, Fats Navarro, Freddie Webster and Kenny Dorham!

The Ken Vail's chronology 'Miles' Diary' states that Miles Davis joined the Gillespie big band on April 5, 1947 for a one-week engagement at Harlem's Savoy Ballroom. The book also notes that Miles' close friend Freddie Webster died on April 1, 1947.

Kenny Dorham was no longer with the Dizzy big band by that time.

[bichos]

also ken vail´s jazz itineraries vol. 1: dizzy gillespie, the bebop years 1937-1952 don´t list the above mentioned trumpet players all together at the same time in dizzy´s band!

keep boppin´

marcel

Edited October 16, 2008 by bichos

[hepcat1950]

In the first volume of Jack Chambers' Miles Davis biography "Milestones 1, The Music and Times of Miles Davis to 1960" Max Roach confirms the trumpet section quoted by DukeCity. Here's an excerpt from page 55:

... Max Roach, the band's drummer on the southern tour as well as at the McKinley Theater, shakes his head in disbelief when he recalls Gillespie's original New York band: "When Dizzy had his first big band, here's the kind of brass section we had. He had Freddy Webster, Kinney Dorham, Miles Davis, Fats Navarro. That's the trumpet section." ...

Jan Lohmann lists a private recording dated 1947 (approximately) on page 10 of his book "The sound of Miles Davis - The discography. 1945-1991"

470000 (approx) - Unknown location, PR

Miles Davis with the Dizzy Gillespie Big Band:

Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie(tp), rest unknown.

Good Bait (nc) 02:26

[bmatt]

I pulled out the recordings I have of Dizzy's big bands.

Algo Bueno: Complete Bluebird/Musicraft Recordings & The Pleyel Concert (Definitive Records DR2CD 11138) has recordings from 1946-1949. Kenny Dorham is listed for 1946.07.09 only; none of the others appear.

Bebop Enters Sweden 1947-49 (Dragon DRCD 318) is an airshot from 1948.02.02 in Stockholm; none of them are listed.

Bryan

Hi Bryan,

Is Monk listed as the pianist on any of those?

[BluesFan]

I pulled out the recordings I have of Dizzy's big bands.

Algo Bueno: Complete Bluebird/Musicraft Recordings & The Pleyel Concert (Definitive Records DR2CD 11138) has recordings from 1946-1949. Kenny Dorham is listed for 1946.07.09 only; none of the others appear.

Bebop Enters Sweden 1947-49 (Dragon DRCD 318) is an airshot from 1948.02.02 in Stockholm; none of them are listed.

Bryan

Hi Bryan,

Is Monk listed as the pianist on any of those?

On the Algo Bueno compilation, John Lewis is credited for piano on all but two tracks where Milt Jackson is.

On Bebop Enters Sweden, Lewis is credited.

[Gheorghe]

A good example to hear Diz, Fats and Miles together is "Overtime" and "Victory Ball" from the Metronome-Allstars 1949. I couldn´t find another example, but Fats is sitting in on 4 tunes of a Miles Davis set from 1950 (supposed to be from the same night as the Charlie Parker Allstars with Bird, Fats, Bud...).