Great Finds

[clifford_thornton]

I found what appears to be an unplayed copy of John Gordon's "Exotica Suite".

Hopefully for less than $987...

[sidewinder]

Now why do I never find stuff like that.. 

[Homefromtheforest]

I used to have finds all the time in the early to mid 90s...in the last 15 years it's seems everything's dried up for the most part..anyway that's a fantastic score!

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, I agree with that sentiment. 

[JSngry]

Is it "Exotica" or "Erotica"?

[rdavenport]

Is it "Exotica" or "Erotica"?

Yes, my mistake, it's "Erotica".

Exotica, Erotica, Eroica.......

[jlhoots]

On October 30, 2015 at 4:12:06 PM, rdavenport said:

 

Yes, my mistake, it's "Erotica".

Exotica, Erotica, Eroica.......

Eroica is a great riesling.

[mjzee]

I found some interesting things today:

New York Jazz Sextet (Art Farmer, James Moody, Tom Macintosh, Tommy Flanagan, Richard Davis, Tootie Heath) - Recorded Together For The First Time - Group Therapy (Scepter)

Leo Parker, Sahib Shihab, Red Saunders' Band - Rare Unissued Recordings, Vintage 1951-53 (Chess)

The Many Faces of Art Farmer (Scepter)

The Duke, The Blues, Billy Eckstine and me! (Regent)

James Moody - Last Train From Overbrook (Chess)

Laurindo Almeida - Acapulco '22 (Tower)

[Teasing the Korean]

Jimmy Smith MONO Blue Note LP for a buck!  In pretty decent shape too!  (No scratches you can feel with your finger.)

[Big Beat Steve]

Back from another secondhand record clearout sale at one of about two brick-and-mortar shops that still handle vinyl here.

Each LP went for 2.50 euros (some even less).

 

Apart from a load of 70s/80s reissue LPs mostly by the big'uns (mostly Ellington and Armstrong for me - stuff off the obvious ones so some gaps were conveniently filled now, including a 2-LP set with the Duke's 1940 Fargo, N.D. concert), some nice original/early pressings from the 50s/early 60s cropped up too:

A bunch of 10-inchers at 2 euros each, most in surprisingly clean condition:

- Erroll Garner "Plays for Dancing" (Dutch Phillips)

- Benny Goodman "Swing Session" (Carnegie Hall excerpts) (Dutch Phillips) - have the music of course but that period cover ...

- Teddy Wilson Trio and Gerry Mulligan Quartet (DSC - Geman record club edition)

- an oddball: Sidney Bechet "en 16 tours" (French Vogue) - to the best of my knowledge the only jazz record apart from that handful of Prestiges ever released for 16rpm turntable speeds. Had that record already but now have a vinyl in slightly better condition. And the seocnd copy no doubt will find a taker who'll appreciate that kind of oddity ...

Now for the 12-inchers.

- Eddie Bert "Modern Moods" (Jazztone 12-inch)

- Louis Armstrong "At the Crescendo Vol. 1" (UK Brunswick)

- Stephane Grappelly "Django" with Pierre Cavalli, L. Petit, G. Pedersen and Daniel Humair (Barclay)

- Lionel Hampton "The Mess Is Here" (Bertelsmann) German 1958 recordings issued by the record club. Already have the record but with a cover in rather worse condition, but that poorer cover is the fold-out version whereas this pressing has a standard jacket. Probably VERY slightly later pressing. Both records in comparable condition. Now which pressing do I keep? Probably both ...

And then some where the covers are just so-so (ah, those U.S. cardboard covers just can't take wear... ) but the vinyl is distinctly better:

- Ella Fitzgerald "Mack The Knife" (U.S. Verve)

- The Mastersounds "Play Compositions by Horace Silver" (U.S. World Pacific)

- Manny Albam & His Jazz Greats "West Side Story" (one of those period pressing oddities - which seem to have existed with quite a few labels - where the locally pressed vinyl, in this case German Coral, was sold inside the thick U.S. (Coral) sleeve)

 

Anyway, not a bad scoop at 2.50 euros maximum each, I think ...

Edited November 13, 2015 by Big Beat Steve

[duaneiac]

A local store had 25% off all its used stock today for Black Friday and I found a still sealed copy of this album for $1.49 final cost.

And a used but fine looking copy of this for $2.25

[Mark Stryker]

After many years, I finally found a copy of "Air Time" -- thanks Chuck! Of all the Air LPs with the original line-up, I'm now only missing the two on Black Saint, "Live Air" and "Air Mail." 

[HutchFan]

Found this LP today in a dollar bin. One dollar! VG+ vinyl; VG cover.  

The Jimmy Giuffre 3 (Atlantic)

I already have this music on CD. But at that price...

Edited January 16, 2016 by HutchFan

[Dmitry]

On 3/11/2015 at 10:48 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

 

Well ... is it really just fetichism if one is pleased to find an interesting record from way back at a very good price that allows you to enjoy ALL aspects of the record (inlcuding listening to the music, but not only so), i.e. all the artwork, from the sleeve to the inner sleeve to the label in its original form as originally thought up and intended by those who published that object (record)?

 

I'd agree it is nothing but fetichism if you pay insane top, top, top money (up to 4-digit figures) for an original/first/early pressing just because it is a platter that some geek had in his grimy, grubby hands way back in the 40s/50s/60s. No music can be THAT great if you pay something like 10, 20 or 50 times what a decent later pressing or reissue goes for (particularly if it is a well-produced facsimile reissue that evne gives you a decent reprodution of the orignal artwork). But if you find an original or early pressing at a very good/affordable/low price in spite of what the "market price" would be then why not enthuse and share your enthusiasm with others?

 

 

And your point is..?

[rdavenport]

On 1/16/2016 at 7:03 PM, HutchFan said:

Found this LP today in a dollar bin. One dollar! VG+ vinyl; VG cover.  

The Jimmy Giuffre 3 (Atlantic)

I already have this music on CD. But at that price...

I love that album. 

[BillF]

[HutchFan]

1 hour ago, rdavenport said:

I love that album. 

Me too.  

[Big Beat Steve]

2 hours ago, Dmitry said:

And your point is..?

10 months after the fact?? My my ...

My point (which has been made and even explained) is that IMHO finding an original (as opposed to a later-day pressing) of course is nice and satisfying from a collecting/history point of view if the price is right (or, better still, a downright "great price") to the buyer. And like I said TEN months ago, why not share this with others and discuss it with like-minded collectors? Nothing wrong with it IMO.

But beyond a certain "top dollar" limit IMHO it becomes insane and a matter of "original pressing fetichism" which cannot really be explained by the greatness of the music anymore either, particularly if it is an item that would be available in any number of decent, good-fidelity repressings priced much more reasonably. In those high-$ realms the border towards pure speculation (as long as top$ markets continue to exist somewhere on other continents, for example) becomes blurred fast. Just my 2c. All said earlier. And that's my point. And no doubt that of others.

 

[Dmitry]

12 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

10 months after the fact?? My my ...

My point (which has been made and even explained) is that IMHO finding an original (as opposed to a later-day pressing) of course is nice and satisfying from a collecting/history point of view if the price is right (or, better still, a downright "great price") to the buyer. And like I said TEN months ago, why not share this with others and discuss it with like-minded collectors? Nothing wrong with it IMO.

But beyond a certain "top dollar" limit IMHO it becomes insane and a matter of "original pressing fetichism" which cannot really be explained by the greatness of the music anymore either, particularly if it is an item that would be available in any number of decent, good-fidelity repressings priced much more reasonably. In those high-$ realms the border towards pure speculation (as long as top$ markets continue to exist somewhere on other continents, for example) becomes blurred fast. Just my 2c. All said earlier. And that's my point. And no doubt that of others.

 

BBS, I don't follow this forum like you do. So I quoted your text from 10 months ago...is that verbotten?

Fetishism ...are you saying that whoever buys that $7,000 Lee Morgan first pressing will -

a. Worship it for its amazing superhuman powers?

or

b. Have sex with it?

[Big Beat Steve]

On 21.1.2016 at 8:14 PM, Dmitry said:

Fetishism ...are you saying that whoever buys that $7,000 Lee Morgan first pressing will -

a. Worship it for its amazing superhuman powers?

or

b. Have sex with it?

1st) IIRC I was referring to another statement that claimend ANYBODY enthusing about chancing upon a "great find" an being glad he found it (and telling about it) was indulding in nothing but fetichism.

2nd) About your question: I am pretty sure I am not the only one who'd answer something like this:

a) More likely worship himself about his amazing superhuman power (including monetary power) of being able to round up such "desirable" items.

b) Not sex with "it" but more likely have sex in some "other" way just by thinking about (at long last ...) owning that item.

Which just might amount to the same thing to the person concerned.

 

To cut a long and in the end redundant discussion (because opinions differ) short, as a collector you can enthuse about a lot of your collecting finds but there is a limit of what might be called reasonable (even if you stretch those limits to the point of bursting) and beyond those limits you'd better not be surprised if you won't be admired anymore but rather ridiculed (because most everybody else would feel you have not gotten your - collecting - money's worth, unless you're in it only for the purpose of speculation which is a different matter altogether).

 

[Dmitry]

On 1/23/2016 at 5:41 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

1st) IIRC I was referring to another statement that claimend ANYBODY enthusing about chancing upon a "great find" an being glad he found it (and telling about it) was indulding in nothing but fetichism.

2nd) About your question: I am pretty sure I am not the only one who'd answer something like this:

a) More likely worship himself about his amazing superhuman power (including monetary power) of being able to round up such "desirable" items.

b) Not sex with "it" but more likely have sex in some "other" way just by thinking about (at long last ...) owning that item.

Which just might amount to the same thing to the person concerned.

 

To cut a long and in the end redundant discussion (because opinions differ) short, as a collector you can enthuse about a lot of your collecting finds but there is a limit of what might be called reasonable (even if you stretch those limits to the point of bursting) and beyond those limits you'd better not be surprised if you won't be admired anymore but rather ridiculed (because most everybody else would feel you have not gotten your - collecting - money's worth, unless you're in it only for the purpose of speculation which is a different matter altogether).

 

I understand what you're saying, however there is a clear definition of the term "fetishism", and it doesn't comply with your application of it to the collecting of record albums. What you've described is narcissism, not fetishism. 

Now, if we bring the $7,000 Lee Morgan's Indeed album back as an example, I think it just proves that someone who has deep pockets and collects records, will obviously spend more than someone who can't afford the price, and nothing else. And the more wealthy people will get into this area of collecting, the more the prices will rise. For instance, someone who collects rare books will spend $170,000 on a mint-conditioned first edition of Charles Darwin's Origin of the Species. In relative terms, collecting of record albums will seem like a bargain. Both the 1st pressing of Lee Morgan's Indeed, and the 1st edition of Darwin are just that - first of many, and thus unique. We can listen and read the consequent copies, which, like you said, sound pretty good. That's what I do.  I do admire the collectors, though. They help preserve the world's heritage.

[Scott Dolan]

I disagree. Fetishism is the belief that something is greater than all others, or is more potent or powerful than others. Like the belief that LPs are superior to CDs, for example.

So in the examples you've given, the first pressing of indeed, or the first copy of Origin Of A Species is thought by some to be superior over the millions of other copies. That is indeed a fetishisation of said items. 

It's proven a fetish through the actions of the buyer. The only way you can prove it is narcissism is to prove the buyers intent to use it as a status symbol.  

Edited January 24, 2016 by Scott Dolan

[Dmitry]

14 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

I disagree. Fetishism is the belief that something is greater than all others, or is more potent or powerful than others. Like the belief that LPs are superior to CDs, for example.

So in the examples you've given, the first pressing of indeed, or the first copy of Origin Of A Species is thought by some to be superior over the millions of other copies. That is indeed a fetishisation of said items. 

It's proven a fetish through the actions of the buyer. The only way you can prove it is narcissism is to prove the buyers intent to use it as a status symbol.  

In his last post he describes narcissistic behavior. I'm referring to this - More likely worship himself about his amazing superhuman power (including monetary power) of being able to round up such "desirable" items.

And of course, the 1st press of Indeed and 1st edition of Darwin ARE superior to the others. For example, wouldn't You gladly pay $100 for either, knowing that they are worth more? That doesn't make you a fetishist, just someone who knows an amazing bargain. If it's only some, as you describe, who think these are superior to millions of other copies, then to all others these objects would have minimal, if any value. But this is not the case. 

[Scott Dolan]

If I were a serious collector, I might. But I don't get the mind set. So no, I wouldn't gladly pay that much for either. 

I'd pay a few bucks for a used CD on eBay, and 2.99 for a digital book on iTunes because I don't believe any particular edition of something is superior enough to justify such stupid prices. Only one who fetishizes such things would.  And that was my point. You said the term wasn't applicable, but it most certainly is. 

[Big Beat Steve]

Like it's been said here, if you can find such an original or early pressing/edition (whatever) at a bargain price - sure, jump on it. But if you are alrady sky-high in top$ collector price ranges then it is what I may call feitshism (in the sense that Scott mentions and that agree about it - i.e. you drool about having the item, regardless of the price) or maybe narcissism (because someone may think he is a better being because he owns such items).

Of course some degree of (minor) fetichism or narcissism is in most of us collectors (because we'd like to get our hands on historical items too in an attempt of grabbing a piece of history so these items do become a sort of fetish to us or because we feel oh so proud owning these items which makes us guilty of some degree of narcissism ;))  but as long as it is really a matter of getting the items at a real bargain price (which I do suppose is what this "Great Finds" topic is all about) then it is a relatively innocent kind of collectionitis IMO. Haven't all of us here who are into collecting (and not just consuming) our favorite music realized we were born waaaay after our favorite period of music so whenever we find one of those early pressings we sort of make up for us having come of age too late to be able to buy the records (or whatever other collectabilia) at the time they were available off the shelves in the shops?

But $7000 for one single vinyl platter? Jeez ... that "eBay madness" topic here did not get started by chance either. There is a limit to what is reasonable after all. Honestly, I really don't want to brag, but just looking at my bank accounts I'd be able to buy the (very) occasional $7000 original pressing too and not feel the dent hurting my account but I'd never, never, never, EVER spend any such amount (not NEARLY such an amount!) for anything like that - EVER (not even coresponding over-the-top sums in other fields of my collecting hobbies). Actually I could not even think of any single record I'd want to sell the proverbial grandma, wife and children for in order to be able to pay an amount in THAT realm ... Simply because I'd be dead sure I'd not get my money's worth and I feel there are LOTS of ways of spending my money in a better and more worthwhile way, regardless of how much of a collector I am. And even as an investment it's pretty unsafe IMHO too buying in those realms. One slump in the overall market and economy and you'll be losing money, and there's no way of predicting the Asians and their insane buying habits will be around forever. At least not enough of them.

No, I still feel there is a bit of a difference between trying to make history unhappen (i.e. by making up for the fact that we came too late to have been around when the items we covet were current) and just using history to speculate. Nobody lives forever, and those who rounded up a pizeless collection of early pressings in their younger day in the 50s will make some impressive profit when they sell off their collections before they bow out (or when their heirs do) but those who shell out $7000 today? Less likely ... And remember those Lee Morgan (et al.) 1st pressings probably are less unique than a mid-19th century 1st printing book.

But anyway ... to each his own ... just sayin' ...

 

Edited January 24, 2016 by Big Beat Steve