Jim Hall 'Jazz Guitar' on Pacific Jazz

[Daniel A]

I'll check with my copy as soon as I get home (I'm away for this week). I'm pretty sure it's on Pacific Jazz, though.

[DrJ]

As I look at this further and with Larry's input, I believe he's right - this does appear to be a slightly later issue in terms of the vinyl being on World Pacific. It was placed in what appears to be an original PJ jacket, but then the inner sleeve lists titles in the World Pacific "reissue" or repressing program! So a hybrid.

But it's still interesting that the tracks are intact in terms of original length. So this adds some clarity to the picture, it's not necessarily just "first pressing" PJ issues that have all the tracks intact as Larry emphasized, which brings a little more hope to people seeking the unedited tracks.

I also want to modify my assessment of the vinyl quality on my copy, after listening more last night I'd say merely "good." Quite a bit of surface noise, although mostly of the background murmur variety. No skips and only a few more distracting pops. So probably $30 is a fair price, I suppose they could have gouged a la Ebay prices, based on the rarity, but the quality I think warrants a substantial dock in price. So I'm happy overall, but unfortunately can't say this is anywhere close to a mint copy.

If people are interested in hearing the original versions, I'd be happy to make some CD-Rs at some point. We're in the process of moving in to a new home so there might be a little delay, but just let me know.

[sidewinder]

I seem to recall Goldmine listing the first issue of this one on PJ.

[037]

I have the original 1957 LP release.

The back cover reads: PACIFIC JAZZ PJ-1227

"7"

[Daniel A]

Here's a scan of my copy. The stamp in the lead-out says "PJ.670.D2.RE" on side 1, and "PJ.671.D2.RE" on side 2.

[jazzman4133]

It is "Good Friday Blues"/The Modest Jazz Trio. The Japanese release was TOCJ 5424. Tracks are Good Friday Blues, Willow Weep For Me, I Remember You, Bill Not Phil, When I have You, I Was Doin' Alright.

This has always been one of my favorite albums.

[DrJ]

One question about the cover - I never noticed from the small version of the cover photo on the CD, but on the LP it's more visible - what the heck is the metal hardware Hall has attached to the guitar near the nut? I've never seen anything like it before.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I'm thinking it's a device to mute the strings to avoid the C&W twang on open strings.

Mike

Yes, it's a damper - here's more than you ever wanted to know on the subject:

http://www.scottymoore.net/dampers.html

Edited June 27, 2004 by Michael Fitzgerald

[DrJ]

Makes sense, both in terms of its location and also in terms of Hall's sound. Thanks very much for the information Mike.

[Daniel A]

The Pacific Jazz/World Pacific album listing found here:

http://jazzlabels.klacto.net/pacific.html

says that

1200 Series: (Post-1958 pressings of 1201-1242 have mono prefix WP-)

Does the label on your copy have the prefix "WP" or "PJ", Tony?

[DrJ]

WP - I'm pretty much convinced now it is a slightly later reissue, but it does definitely have all the full track lengths. Which to my knowledge has not been commented on previously, so kind of an addition to the twisted story of this album!

[Ken Dryden]

I just discovered this thread so I might be of some help.

I own both an original copy of Jim Hall's Jazz Guitar CD and the long out of print original Pacific Jazz LP (prior to Bock's dumb editing and overdubbing of Larry Bunker's drums). The LP is not in terrific shape, but at least plays without skips.

I interviewed Jim Hall around 1990 and he told me that the longer version of "Things Ain't What They Used to Be" was actually the master take and the one shown as the master on the CD reissue was actually Bock's edited version of the same take.

I imagine that the budget and time constraints prevented Michael Cuscuna from continuing a search for a near mint copy of the original LP (wouldn't a jazz library like Rutgers have one?), though I bet someone out there will be glad to loan a mint copy in case it is reissued again.

BTW, Lord's discography relies on the CD and has the alternate/master situation backwards, just like the CD.

[Daniel A]

Thanks for the info, Ken!

For those interested, I have posted the timings from the original LP *here*.

And if they decide to reissue it once more I have a clean copy to dub from right here.

[Allan Songer]

Thanks for the info, Ken!

For those interested, I have posted the timings from the original LP *here*.

And if they decide to reissue it once more I have a clean copy to dub from right here.

I have a NM original too--it's not a particularly rare or valuable record--I have passed on really, REALLY nice copies in the last couple of years that were priced in the $75-$100 range.

I bought mine back in the late 70's at Rasputin's in Berkeley for about five bucks.

[mikeweil]

I understand less and less why Cuscuna didn't look for an LP copy when reissuing that album ....

[Chuck Nessa]

I understand less and less why Cuscuna didn't look for an LP copy when reissuing that album ....

You have to remember it was almost 20 years ago and the chance to issue "rare material" in the newer medium was a big deal. Getting stuff out was the big deal, no time to sweat the details. Lots of shortcuts were taken, just to get material reissued and in the public mind.

"Hey, we have this new printing press, screw the fonts". Books a-plenty!

[Ken Dryden]

I have a NM original too--it's not a particularly rare or valuable record--I have passed on really, REALLY nice copies in the last couple of years that were priced in the $75-$100 range.

$75 to $100 is probably a bit high for a copy of Jim Hall's Jazz Guitar LP (not the later edited or overdubbed versions), but I am pretty sure that NM or better copies will likely command at least $40 to $50 from most sellers. I don't think it is all that common a record in better shape.

Prior to the internet, pricing of out of print jazz LPs was far more erratic.

[Allan Songer]

I have a NM original too--it's not a particularly rare or valuable record--I have passed on really, REALLY nice copies in the last couple of years that were priced in the $75-$100 range.

$75 to $100 is probably a bit high for a copy of Jim Hall's Jazz Guitar LP (not the later edited or overdubbed versions), but I am pretty sure that NM or better copies will likely command at least $40 to $50 from most sellers. I don't think it is all that common a record in better shape.

Prior to the internet, pricing of out of print jazz LPs was far more erratic.

You got that right!! Ebay drove the price WAY up on rare Blue Notes and also proved that 10" Fantasy LPs really ARE worth only ten bucks!

[mjzee]

I recently bought a CD copy of Jazz Guitar through CDJapan.  It appears to contain the unedited tracks:

Stomping At The Savoy, 4:41

Things Ain't What They Used To Be, 5:50

This Is Always, 2:52

Thanks For The Memory, 5:19

Tangerine, 4:33

Stella By Starlight, 4:00

9:20 Special, 5:46

Deep In A Dream, 4:36

Look For The Silver Lining, 5:08

Seven Come Eleven, 4:31

[ejp626]

It appears you aren't the only ones bothered by the editing (butchering?) of the session.  There was a Gambit release, now upgraded to Essential Jazz Classics (part of the Fresh Sounds family), called Jim Hall "Complete Jazz Guitar."  This happens to be on iTunes.  I gather the first 10 tracks are dubbed from an original LP, and the rest is bonus material that has popped up from time to time.

The Good Friday Blues (by the Modest Jazz Trio) has turned up on a few labels and is also on iTunes in various incarnations. 

 

[Bluesnik]

On 7/1/2016 at 7:42 PM, mjzee said:

I recently bought a CD copy of Jazz Guitar through CDJapan.

I also have that edition from that time and like it a lot. Though I don´t know about the edited/unedited status of the tracks. Oh sorry, now I see that post was from 2016 and I think I got it at least 10 years earlier.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Bluesnik

[ghost of miles]

Looks like there may be a new Japanese reissue of this album? I’d love to pick it up (especially given Carl Perkins’ participation), but will definitely want to make sure I’m getting the original unedited version.

[jazzcorner]

On 15.6.2004 at 6:12 AM, Larry Kart said:

I'm pretty sure that it came out originally on Pacific Jazz. I believe that label didn't mutate into World Pacific until 1958 (supporting that memory is another one -- PJ albums were thickish and kinda heavy, a la most sleeves of the time (BN for example), but WP sleeves were lighter and thinner, and the copy of "Jazz Guitar" I had was of the first sort. Thus, I'd say yes to (1) and (2). Dick Bock's dicking around with the material probably began with a later WP issue. Whatever, you're a lucky man.

 

Stumbled over this thread and have all discussed albums except the original PJ 1227 in my stock.I also bought in 2016 a Gambit CD which claims to have all the original takes (without the doctored tracks of Richard Bock) on bord. These are 11 tracks. The CD contains also 5 bonus tracks. Total is 16 tracks ans a playing time of 79:14

Here are the scans of these Items

a) the reissued Pacific Jazz # 79

b) The Modes Jazz Trio " Good Friday Blues"

c) the Gambit CD 69259  The Complete ' Jazz Guitar'  - Jim Hall (Discogs lists this label as "unofficial" and forbids to sell it on their marketplace???) -  My CD is  still sealed!

 

This is a japanese reissue:

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by jazzcorner
typos