brownie Posted October 26, 2003 Report Posted October 26, 2003 Stepping in late on this thread. The great ones have been mentioned. Would like to raise a hand for Bob Gordon who has already been mentioned. There are two few recordings from his meteoric career available. Before he died in 1955, he made powerful appearances on albums by people like Jack Montrose, Herbie Harper, Clifford Brown (the Pacific Jazz date that was RVGed), Lennie Niehaus... Check his solo on 'Two Can Play' from his Pacific Jazz album that was reissued by Fresh Sounds. Swinging and inventive. Gordon was about to become a master on the instrument. The Mule has already mentioned Sahib Shihab. He made quite a number of appearances on baritone but remains badly unrecognised. Serge Chaloff is my favorite ever since I caught 'Blue Serge' when it came out. Still have the original LP. Wish his amazing 'Boston BlowUp' Capitol date was reissued. I did not purchase the Mosaic Chaloff set since I had all of the material except for the added tracks on the 'Boston BlowUp' session and have been waiting for a CD appearance now that the Mosaic set has been out of print. Quote
Tom Storer Posted October 26, 2003 Report Posted October 26, 2003 I'll add another vote for Brignola, the most ferocious bebop baritone - well, along with Pepper Adams. Brignola had chops of steel, and could kick along at ridiculously high speed while making it all look easy. Clarity, precision, grace and swing - the man just burned. He stuck to upstate New York most of the time but went down to the city to record with the best. He used Dave Holland a lot, and enjoyed playing Holland's "Four Winds," from "Conference of the Birds," in concert. I went to school in Albany and often saw Brignola at his regular weekly gig at a place called the Lark Tavern, which also featured J.R. Monterose fairly often. Once I saw the two of them jamming (on one number Brignola played tenor like it was his main horn) - that night Howard Johnson was in the pub and Brignola introduced him and gave him a big hug, but he didn't play. Too bad, Johnson is another nice voice on baritone. Among the current guys I like Gary Smulyan and Scott Robinson a lot - Smulyan is mighty with Holland's big band, and Robinson was recently featured on a Bob Brookmeyer big band record. Quote
BruceH Posted October 26, 2003 Report Posted October 26, 2003 Stepping in late on this thread. The great ones have been mentioned. Would like to raise a hand for Bob Gordon who has already been mentioned. There are two few recordings from his meteoric career available. Before he died in 1955, he made powerful appearances on albums by people like Jack Montrose, Herbie Harper, Clifford Brown (the Pacific Jazz date that was RVGed), Lennie Niehaus... Check his solo on 'Two Can Play' from his Pacific Jazz album that was reissued by Fresh Sounds. Swinging and inventive. Gordon was about to become a master on the instrument. The Mule has already mentioned Sahib Shihab. He made quite a number of appearances on baritone but remains badly unrecognised. Serge Chaloff is my favorite ever since I caught 'Blue Serge' when it came out. Still have the original LP. Wish his amazing 'Boston BlowUp' Capitol date was reissued. I did not purchase the Mosaic Chaloff set since I had all of the material except for the added tracks on the 'Boston BlowUp' session and have been waiting for a CD appearance now that the Mosaic set has been out of print. This is how much of a Chaloff fanatic I am: I already had Boston Blow Up on vinyl, but I STILL got the Mosaic. Sahib Shihab --YES! Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Ronnie Lang, who also plays fine alto sax and flute, has some nice, light baritone solos on the "Peter Gunn" albums. No rasp at all! I would like to have heard more from him. (Although a sax player myself, I have never gotten into the baritone. But I was at a blow in Ottawa, Ontario in 1977, and one of the other guys had a Selmer MK VII with the low A. I blew a few notes on it, and was surprised to find that that model was very easy to blow, and didn't weigh as much as you might have expected.) Quote
Late Posted October 27, 2003 Author Report Posted October 27, 2003 Brownie, Boston Blow-Up! has made it to compact disc: While certainly not the best price, it's available as a Japanese import here. I almost forgot about Jack Nimitz and Ronnie Lang. Nimitz is actually on Charles Mingus' Mingus at Monterey (though he doesn't solo), and Lang was an important voice in some of Dave Pell's octet configurations. Another baritone player that Pell used was one Marty Berman, who I know nothing about. But — the true unsung "West Coast" hero of the baritone saxophone is surely Bob Gordon. What a talent. Quote
Late Posted October 27, 2003 Author Report Posted October 27, 2003 ... and speaking of "West Coast" baritone saxophonists, how about Vinny Golia? Though he's essentially (or strictly) a multi-instrumentalist, for some reason I always hear his "main" horn as being the baritone saxophone. I haven't spun his stuff in a long time, but remember quite liking Against the Grain and Nation of Laws. Quote
BERIGAN Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Man, thought for sure someone would have mentioned Ernie Caceres! Though checking at allmusic.com, I saw no solo albums, is that true??? He played with Eddie Condon a fair bit, Armstrong, and others...really wish he had recorded more Baritone, his clarinet is fine, but he seemed born to play the Baritone.... I REALLY wish Jimmy Dorsey had played more baritone...he did some recordings with Joe Venuti/Eddie Lang in the mid/late 20's and seemed very comfortable playing one..... Quote
brownie Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Brownie, Boston Blow-Up! has made it to compact disc: Late, thanks for the info but what I want is a CD with the added material that came out on the Mosaic box (and more if any additional alternate is available). I got the Affinity Lp reissue of 'Boston Blow-Up' and marveled at the music. Later, I got the original Capitol LP. I'll stick to that vinyl until the complete session shows up on CD. One amazing baritone session that I have not seen mentioned is the Beehive album by Nick Brignola 'Burn Brigade' where Brignola has Ronnie Cuber and Cecil Payne along (with Walter Davis Jr, Walter Booker Jr and Jimmy Cobb as a rhythm section). Their version of 'Our Delight' really means it! Remember that Beehive was (is?) reserved for vinyl fans only. Quote
James Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Glad to see Jim Hartog getting some props here. Have you heard his arranging work on the 29th St. Sax Quartet recording "Milano/N.Y Bridge"? OHHHHHH MYYYYYY GAWWWWWD it is AMAAAAAAZING!!!!!!! (His blowing is mighty fine as well!) And a big thumbs up for Glenn Wilson also. I'm embarrassed to say that I can't recall the name of the guitarist he recorded a duo with on the Sunnyside label, though it's it's my collection somewhere. The relatively new Pepper Adams reissue "Urban Dreams" (Quicksilver) came in the mail just yesterday. Pepper + Rowles, Mraz and Hart. Extremely nice, despite the odd "spongy" sound quality of Mraz's bass. The Knife was in excellent form on this date! Quote
EKE BBB Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Maybe I missed it, but has anyone mentioned the Three Baritone Saxophone Band (Cuber, Brignola & Smulyan with bassist Andy McKee and drummer Joe Farnsworth) and their recording "Plays Mulligan"? Great stuff - especially the title song from the noir classic, "I Want To Live". A great disc indeed... though I hadn´t heard much Smulyan, Cuber or Brignola before! Quote
EKE BBB Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 My favorite all time baritone saxophonist is HARRY CARNEY. Yes, I know you´re talking about leading dates and solos... and Carney wasn´t a regular leader (wish he had been!) but: -first of all, I think he was the base and support of the Ellington reeds section... and this means a lot to me! -then he gave us wonderful solos here and there through the years (many years, a whole life he spent with the Duke). He was "more generous" in the early days and he hardly soloed at the end! -and he´s featured in many Ellingtonians small ensembles dates with the likes of Cootie Williams, Johnny Hodges, Rex Stewart... BTW: hear him playing in the 1938 Carnegie Hall Goodman´s concert!!!!!! Quote
White Lightning Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 (edited) And a big thumbs up for Glenn Wilson also. I'm embarrassed to say that I can't recall the name of the guitarist he recorded a duo with on the Sunnyside label, though it's it's my collection somewhere. The name is Rory Stuart. He plays duo with Glenn Wilson in "Bittersweet". He's also playing in Wilson's quartet recording "Blue Porpoise Avenue" Both in the Sunnyside label. Edited October 27, 2003 by White Lightning Quote
White Lightning Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 My favorite all time baritone saxophonist is HARRY CARNEY. Yes, I know you´re talking about leading dates and solos... and Carney wasn´t a regular leader (wish he had been!) Harry Carney was indeed an incredible musician. There wouldn't be that Ellington sound without his Axe! Ironically, his best solo in my opinion is on clarinet (!) playing his own composition "Rockin' in Rhythm" - in Ellington's "The Great Paris Concert". Quote
ralphie_boy Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 I dig Cecil Payne's work too. Another guy I like is Tate Houston. I've only heard him on the Fuller BONE and BARI session, but his work stands out on it. Pepper is probably my favorite though. Ronnie Cuber is da man! ... Ralphie, I dig your Zappa avatar! I used to have that album... Thanks. I wish I could find an original vinyl copy just for the cover. Quote
jazzbo Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Since we're talking about Wilen on the board again these days, Wilen absolutely does a killing baritone piece on the Osaka Concert cd, "Sous les Ciels de Paris" ---I really love it. He really blows a nice baritone (he had a great sound and swing on the soprano, alto and tenor too!) Quote
king ubu Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 He does a nice tune on bari on "New York Romance" - I think it's the Duke Jordan tune "No Problem", but I'm not sure. He was certainly an able player on the big horn! ubu Quote
king ubu Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Jay Cameron is another one who deserves mention; Wilen presumably made his recording debut on a Cameron date (see the cover of a CD reissue containing that date in the Wilen thread), and Cameron later was part of Slide Hampton's tentet (this is documented on "Exodus", reissued recently in the excellent Jazz in Paris series). ubu Quote
jazzbo Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 You are correct Ubu, JAY CAMERON was a great baritonist! Quote
JohnS Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 I love the sound of the big horn. Favourites, Mulligan, Chaloff, Gullin. But how about Heywood Henry with Erskine Hawkins' band for someone from the swing era. Henry Threadgill's played it, Stan Getz, Prince Lasha, Roscoe Mitchell and Joseph Jarman all to good effect. Sun Ra as has been said made great use of the lower horns and I remember one of his London concerts when he had two baritones wandering among the audience-wow what a noise-unforgetable. Quote
king ubu Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 This disc has some good (and presumably pretty rare) sessions. I have not yet delved deeper into the work of Gullin, but judging from the few tracks on this disc, he sure is an interesting player. (The Konitz and Koller tracks are fine, too, by the way. Jutta Hipp plays on one of the sessions, I think on the Koller one.) ubu Quote
couw Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 I assume the Jutta Hipp (and maybe also the Hans Koller) stuff is the same as featured on this Cool Jazz in Germany CD? She plays with Joki Freund and Emil Mangelsdorff. No bari on this disk, but an interesting one nonetheless. Click here for info and some samples (tracks 1-4 by Hipp, 5-8 by Roland Kovac, 9-11 by Bill Grah, 12-14 by Hans Koller, 15-16 by Attila Zoller, 17-19 by Rudi Sehring) Quote
JohnS Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 Overlooked Ken Vandermark. Good to hear him on the big horn too. Quote
king ubu Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 (edited) (all off-topic, sorry!) couw, Ms Hipp appears as a side-woman on the disc I mentioned. The following are the Koller tracks (taken from amazon.fr) - and I have to stress that I am going from memory and am not sure if she really is on any of all of them - gotta check as soon as possible, but have no access to my collection right now): 8. The Way You Look Tonight(Koller Hans) 9. You Go To My Head(Koller Hans) 10. Flamingo(Koller Hans) 11. Four Roses In A Iceblock(Koller Hans) 12. Unter Den Linden(Koller Hans) 13. All The Things You Are(Koller Hans) 14. What's New(Koller Hans) 15. Indian Summer(Koller Hans) Seems to be something else than what's on the disc you linked above. PM me, and I'll give you the rest of the details - but I won't have time till late on wednesday or thursday morning. ubu Edited October 27, 2003 by king ubu Quote
couw Posted October 27, 2003 Report Posted October 27, 2003 PM me, and I'll give you the rest of the details - but I won't have time till late on wednesday or thursday morning. sent that PM. take your time. and now somebody please get this thread on track and topic again! -_- Quote
Late Posted October 27, 2003 Author Report Posted October 27, 2003 Unless I haven't been reading carefully enough, I think we forgot about Charlie Ventura! I dig his sides on Verve, where, in addition to the bari (and tenor), he plays some wild bass saxophone. A fun player. Quote
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