Late Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Listening to Lars Gullin right now, I'm thinking all things baritone. Here are some questions to start a discussion: • When you reach for a recording with a baritone saxophonist on it, what album, or artist, do you find yourself most commonly reaching for? • What baritone saxophonist do you wish had recorded more? In what type of setting? • Are there any great baritone saxophonists out there that you think are under-recognized, or not recognized at all? • Are there any baritone saxophone-led recordings that you would personally consider a "hidden gem" in the vast sea of improvised recordings? Quote
jazzbo Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 I really enjoy Lars Gullin as well, and wish I had more of his work at hand to play. I also reach for Harry Carney a lot (as an Ellington Orchestra member; precious little that he did as a leader; I don't think I have any except the Granz date). And I also like Mulligan, have a growing collection of his work. Pepper Adams as a modern hardbop and beyond player is who I think of when I think of modern baritone. Brignola is good, Smulyan is good, Bluette is good. . .Pepper is BOSS. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Pepper Adams as a modern hardbop and beyond player is who I think of when I think of modern baritone. Brignola is good, Smulyan is good, Bluette is good. . .Pepper is BOSS. Me too. Actually, I really don't have all that many recordings with Bari, come to think of it. Probably fully half of what I got is stuff with Pepper. Quote
JSngry Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Early Ronnie Cuber was a BLAST! The stuff w/Benson & Lonnie Smith, sure, but going back earlier, he had a feature on "The Lady's In Love" off of Maynard's COLOR HIM WILD album on Mainstream that is just a balls-out burnfest. WHOOO! I also got a video of him w/Lionel Hampton's band sometime in the mid-60s, on some TV big band dance show, and he stretches out on "Flying Home". Lemme tell you, that puppy ROCKS! The guy looks to be about 12 feet tall, weighing in at about 25 pounds, with fingers the length of well-fed tapeworms, and he is BLOWING, rocking the house in a totally hip fashion that finds (or maybe even INVENTS) the common ground between Illinois Jacquet & Pepper Adams. Lionel, never one to miss an opportunity to let a good groove go on and get mo'better, just lets him go, and go he does. Easily one of the best examples of bebop-inspired pure party music I've ever come across. But I guess the guy mellowed out, went into the studios, etc, you know the rest. What little I've heard of him over the last 25 years or so has still been good, but DAMN, when he was a kid, relatively speaking, he was a DANGEROUS motherfucker! Quote
John Tapscott Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 When you reach for a recording with a baritone saxophonist on it, what album, or artist, do you find yourself most commonly reaching for? Mulligan, Adams, Brignola, in that order • Are there any baritone saxophone-led recordings that you would personally consider a "hidden gem" in the vast sea of improvised recordings? Cecil Payne's Delmark recordings from the '90's. Quote
jazzbo Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Good mentions guys. Cuber was really burning on those Hampton tracks on video. . . . I really like his Xanadus as well. And Payne was someone I should have mentioned. I think his recordings as a leader really should be heard more, the Delmarks, the Charlie Parker Records, the Stash, and more (?) . . . Good call. Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 John Surman is the baritone player I've always loved most. Always enjoyed Harry Carney too. I've recently become interested by Pepper Adams having heard him on the Chamber Select. The Byrd/Adams Mosaic fell through my door yesterday (thanks to recommendations elsewhere on this board). I've played disc one three times so far and am loving the setting and Adam's fruity playing. A nice baritoney weekend ahead. Quote
JSngry Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 In many ways, my singlemost favorite Bari solo is the one that Fathead plays on Ray Charles' "Greenbacks". Not particularly "heavy" or anything like that in terms of chops or vocabulary, but a beautifully structured, organically balanced 12 bars that has a Zen-like perfection to it. If it were THAT simple, everybody could do it. Quote
Sundog Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 I'm a Cecil Payne man myself. How often did Johnny Griffin play Baritone? He plays it incredibly, on Ira Sullivan's Blue Stroll album. Quote
Late Posted October 24, 2003 Author Report Posted October 24, 2003 Cecil Payne has an oddly wonderful one-pitch-only solo (literally) on Coleman Hawkins' recording of "The Big Head." Just that one note, repeated, hammering everyone's bones. Then Hawk takes it up and out with the same riff. I also dig Payne's playing on the original recording of "Little Niles." Quote
BruceH Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 I'm also a big Pepper Adams fan, but has anybody mentioned Serge Chaloff? He did some GREAT stuff! Also, there's some nice bari work on Soul Mates, Charlie Rouse's last album I believe, played by Sahib Shihab in burning fashion. I agree, too, that Cecil Payne deserves more attention. Quote
The Mule Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Finally somebody mentioned Serge! I was also going to put in a thumbs up for Sahib Shihab. His album CONVERSATIONS on Black Lion is a favorite as well as JAZZ SAHIB (w/Bill Evans, Oscar Pettiford, Phil Woods and Benny Golson!) on Savoy. Cecil Payne is wonderful and Pepper IS the boss! Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 I think Serge is my favorite. However, I won't be to exclusive. I love the sound of the Bari, and played well by almost anyone I'm a sucker for. Cuber w/organ is a match made in heaven. There's also a guy here in town who plays with me a couple times a month...Phillipe Vieux. Philipe played with Horace Silver on the road...during the "hardbop grandpop" tour, subbing for Cuber since he couldn't tour with Horace to support that record. Anyway, Phillipe is a BAAADDD cat. I dig him a lot. Quote
ralphie_boy Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 I dig Cecil Payne's work too. Another guy I like is Tate Houston. I've only heard him on the Fuller BONE and BARI session, but his work stands out on it. Pepper is probably my favorite though. Quote
king ubu Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 This might be my very favorite bari sax disc: Then the ones mentioned already: Mulligan (also a growing collection in my house), Adams (though I have none of his leader dates so far, but he shows up on so many great albums), Tate Houston (that date with Curtis Fuller is great), Cecil Payne (I just listened to some of those Tadd Dameron Big Ten broadcasts again - he does some excellent playing there). Then a new name: Bob Gordon - check out his recordings with Jack Montrose. And the stray european (besides Surman, who sure is a very individualist musician, who I dig quite a little): Carlo Actis Dato (of Italian Instabile fame). ubu Quote
Lazaro Vega Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 "New" guy Gary Smulyan. Work horse. "New" guy Scott Robinson. Favorite, Serge. Love the Mosaic box, Woody's Four Brothers Band, the new Allen Eager/Serge Chaloff 11 minute "Fine and Dandy" with Buddy Rich on the Uptown "In the Land of Oo-bla-dee." Quote
White Lightning Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Greatest Bari players ever - Pepper Adams & Nick Brignola. I'm a HUGE Brignola fan. He never played a wrong note. Favorite Albuns: Pepper & Brignola - Baritone Maddness (BeeHive), Serge Chaloff Blue Serge (BN); Nick Brignola - On a different level (Reservior) - all the tracks on this Cd are great, but checkout "Backwoods Song" - a duet with Dave Holland - AMAZING! "New" Bari Players I really want to hear more of their work: - Jim Hartog (where is he? ) - Claire Daly (2 lovely albums on Koch. a Mulligan disciple) - Chris Mitchell (a nice one w/ Phil woods on Koch. AMG doesn't even have an entry for him) "Old" guys I wished they recorded more: - Bill Perking on Bari. "Warm Moods" is a beaut. - Leo Parker (besides the 2 BNs, I really like his Chess and Parrot recordings of the early 50s) - Harry Carney outside of Duke's band. Quote
Morganized Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 All of those previously mentioned, Serge, Pepper, Mulligan, are really great. One name that I would like to throw into the mix though is Gil Melle. I had never heard his stuff until the 10" series came out but man he was really creative and had a great sound on bari.IMHO If you haven't listened to Gil, give him a listen. I think he merits consideration. Quote
king ubu Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Yes! Mellé! I would not think of him primarily as an instrumentalist, maybe that's why he did not come to my mind. His Complete Blue Note 2CD set is a real winner. I recently found his TOME VI (on LP). A real original. ubu Quote
JSngry Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 Ya'know, I don't know whatever became of Bruce Johnston, and I didn't care for New York Mary AT ALL, but he played some pretty spirited bari w/Maynard in the early 70s and gave a good showing on Braxton's Arista big band album, so i figure that anybody who can cover that much ground sucessfully doesn't deserve to be forgotten. Besides, he played bari to where it sounded like Gene Ammons. Gotta love THAT! Quote
Shrdlu Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 My favorite, especially for hard bop, is Pepper Adams by a wide margin. Gerry Mulligan is of course outstanding, and more broad in his style; a fabulous musician all-round. My Dad and I always liked the "Blue Serge" LP after I found a used copy in a flea market. It's sad that Serge did not make more records. My old woodwind book, "Woodwind Instruments and Their History", by Anthony Baines, discusses the members of the sax family; when he came to the baritone, he really praised Harry Carney's amazingly delicate control. He said that it was one of the most expressive sounds on a woodwind instrument. Beyond these guys, and a few other good ones, I generally don't welcome the instrument on a session, as the also-rans on it just make an unpleasant, raspy sound. I also prefer a sax section not to have one, normally, as my favorite one is the Hymie Scherzer-led Benny Goodman section. The absence of a baritone is a major part of its sound. Quote
GA Russell Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 For me, Mulligan sets the standard. Everybody else sounds harsh in comparison. I also enjoy what little I have of Bob Gordon and Serge Chaloff. Is anybody else familiar with Ronnie Cuber's solo on Mark Murphy's Eleanor Rigby? Great record! Quote
Dave James Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 I love the big pipe. The second Mosaic I bought was the Chaloff and only because he played the baritone...I'd never actually heard him and I only knew of him as a Herdsman. He's become a particular favorite. However, of all the bari players who have been rightfully mentioned in this thread, my numero uno is Lars Gullin. Such a unique, light and airy sound, especially considering the instrument he's playing. I'm particularly fond of his five CD's on the Swedish Dragon label. Put me amongst the Mulligan Masses and in the Carney Corner as well. As far as Pepper Adams goes, though, I'm not sure I've yet been able to acquire that taste. I have a lot of his stuff, but there something about that too raspy sound that just doesn't get over with me. Up over and out. Quote
Adam Posted October 24, 2003 Report Posted October 24, 2003 I always go for Hamiett Bluiett first, then Serge Chaloff. No one else comes close, but I also don't have any Pepper Adams albums, although I intend to rectify that soon. I really just started getting into Mulligan. And I have no Brignola. I really like several of Bluiett's albums, including the ones with Khalil El 'Zabar and with D.D. Jackson. Quote
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