Baritone Saxophonists

[mikeweil]

The thread has reached page 6 and it seems that nobody has mentioned Charlie Fowlkes yet. Can't remember solos by him but his sound was really part of the Basie New testament band.

Folks! Anybody knows solos by Fowlkes?

Just listened to Kenny Clarke's Telefunken Blues on Savoy, which has 4 titles with Fowlkes, who is heard prominently in the 3 horn frontline, but no solos. I cannot understand this, would really like to hear him soloing. Seems to be the curse of Basie baritonists ....

[mikeweil]

Somehow I think it's a shame these three greats have to pay tribute to Mulligan to make themselves heard.

[mikeweil]

Although I mentioned Chaloff's Blue Serge as being a baritone desert island disc, and think it is the prime introduction to the instrument's capabilities, Cecil Payne seems to be my favourite.

A hidden gem (as asked for in the initial post) is the 1956 Savoy LP Patterns in Jazz with Kenny Dorham on four tracks. Dorham and Payne were a perfect frontline match, with their lyricism and common first-hand bebop experience. The rhythm section with Duke Jordan, Tommy Potter (playing some great solos) and Arthur Taylor is very very fine too - each title swings in a slightly different fashion.

Payne's soft and fluid sound touches me much more than the harder edged Adams etc. school. He's also heard prominently on the Ernie Wilkins-Kenny Clarke Septet LP on Savoy, in tandem with George Barrow, who hasn't been mentioned yet - mostly burried in section work, but his solos here show a fine player.

Edited January 4, 2004 by mikeweil

[mmilovan]

Another Basie reedman who rarely soloed, Jack Washington

He indeed rarely soloed, but he was very capable, interesting musican. For those interested how he played there are tracks on Basie Old Testament heritage (Decca and Columbia sides), and probably more on broadcasts of the same band (recently I've got so called Chatterbox Pitsburg 1937 Basie broadcast, where Jack Washington is featured on at least 3 tracks).

I think he also was member of Bennie Motten orchestra, and if I am not wrong, he soloed there also.

Edited January 4, 2004 by mmilovan

[couw]

I'm just now listening to Ronnie Ross - Cleopatra's Needle (1968)

I recently dicovered Ross on a concert performance included on a way obscure Polish LP. He seems to go largely unrecognised as a jazz artist, in spite of his rather large output. AMG lists near to nothing, but there's a nice homepage out there.

[stevebop]

Took in the movie "Cooler" last night. An entertaining film about love and luck in Las Vegas (what else is new). The original music is by Mark Isham. Rolling the closing credits we find Mark playing trumpet, Tim Garland on tenor and alto saxophone and Adam Peppers on baritone sax. Obviously a nom de bari. Does anyone have any ideas who this might really be? My guess is Gary Smulyan but I can 't be sure.

I haven't read thru this whole thread but I want to make sure Howard Johnson gets a mention.

[mikeweil]

Took in the movie "Cooler" last night. An entertaining film about love and luck in Las Vegas (what else is new). The original music is by Mark Isham. Rolling the closing credits we find Mark playing trumpet, Tim Garland on tenor and alto saxophone and Adam Peppers on baritone sax. Obviously a nom de bari. Does anyone have any ideas who this might really be? My guess is Gary Smulyan but I can 't be sure.

Here's one for comparison:

There's more at Gary Smulyan's website.

I haven't read thru this whole thread but I want to make sure Howard Johnson gets a mention.

Yeah Howard Johnson plays some mean bari on occasion! There's a great bluesy one on Taj Mahal's live album "The Real Thing".

[stevebop]

Mikewell: I was going by the sound alone. Gary(?) wasn't in the film, but on the soundtrack. I just know of his fondness for Pepper Adams and thought, for some contractual reason, he couldn't use his real name in the credits.

Gary was in Boston recently with Joe Lovano's Nonet. He sounded great

[Late]

Another baritone saxophonist to add to the list — Steve Baczkowski. Largely a "free" player, I suppose, but with very musical (rather than screaming) tendencies. His work is pretty much only on smaller labels, but I'd recommend a duo date he did with tabla/percussion/drums player named Ravi Padmanhabha (I hope I spelled that right). It's called Tongue Rust & Lead Moth — on the Utech Records label. (squidco.com carries Utech.)

Also have been revisting Cecil Payne's work lately — his work with Randy Weston (the original version of "Little Niles"), and his Strata East date. Love Cecil.

[Late]

Oh yeah — anyone else picked this one up?

Kind of wonky sound, but nice playing!

[mrjazzman]

when I think of the Bari, I think heavy, intense, deep, growling lower register stuff, no light stuff. for me, it's got to be Fog Horn quality. So, who fits that description better than anyone else???????? Who else, my favorite all time Bari player...........Pepper Adams the best of the lot, dead or alive. You can take my first born child but don't take my Pepper Adams/Donald Byrd stuff, Smulyan is nice, have one Brignola session. Sorry, can't get into Cecil Payne or Gerry Mulligan............

[mrjazzman]

Somehow I think it's a shame these three greats have to pay tribute to Mulligan to make themselves heard.

I agree with you 1000%.............................

[JSngry]

when I think of the Bari, I think heavy, intense, deep, growling lower register stuff, no light stuff. for me, it's got to be Fog Horn quality. So, who fits that description better than anyone else????????

Bruce Johnston, at least in his days w/Maynard. Not nearly the player Pepper was, but if you want Fog Horn (and not Leghorn), that's your guy. His tone is/was to the bari what 70s Gene Ammon's was to the tenor. Again, tone only, not content.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Fred Jackson, Leroy Cooper and Leo Parker for me in 2, 3 & 4 place; but most of all Ronnie Cuber. I saw him at the Brecon Jazz Festival in 2000, with Dr Lonnie, David Bernstein and a drummer whose name I didn't catch subbing for Idris. I could have died happy at that gig. It was the best I've ever been to.

MG

(He wasn't as good with Cornell Dupree and Les McCann last year - but he was playing tenor. Has he got a problem with his lungs? Or was it that Ronnie's wouldn't let him play loud music?)

[JSngry]

Fred Jackson, Leroy Cooper and Leo Parker for me in 2, 3 & 4 place; but most of all Ronnie Cuber. I saw him at the Brecon Jazz Festival in 2000, with Dr Lonnie, David Bernstein and a drummer whose name I didn't catch subbing for Idris. I could have died happy at that gig. It was the best I've ever been to.

MG

(He wasn't as good with Cornell Dupree and Les McCann last year - but he was playing tenor. Has he got a problem with his lungs? Or was it that Ronnie's wouldn't let him play loud music?)

He's playing tenor on some of those Bob Belden videos too.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Fred Jackson, Leroy Cooper and Leo Parker for me in 2, 3 & 4 place; but most of all Ronnie Cuber. I saw him at the Brecon Jazz Festival in 2000, with Dr Lonnie, David Bernstein and a drummer whose name I didn't catch subbing for Idris. I could have died happy at that gig. It was the best I've ever been to.

MG

(He wasn't as good with Cornell Dupree and Les McCann last year - but he was playing tenor. Has he got a problem with his lungs? Or was it that Ronnie's wouldn't let him play loud music?)

He's playing tenor on some of those Bob Belden videos too.

Perhaps he has got a bit of a health problem, then. I hope not.

Just remembered he played a sensational solo on Slide Hampton's "Sister Salvation".

MG

[JSngry]

I'm asking around. If I hear something, I'll let you know.

[shrugs]

Vinny Golia

[JSngry]

No health problems for Cuber, just taking gigs on tenor to get the work.

[Peter Friedman]

England had/has some good baritone sax players. The late Ronnie Ross has already been mentioned, but the late Harry Klein was not. Alan Barnes is a very fine baritone sax player, and he also plays most of the other reed instruments too.

Both Bud Shank and Jimmy Giuffre were good baritone players, but Giuffre no longer plays at all, and Shank stays totally with the alto sax.

My all time favorite baritone sax player is Pepper Adams. I have seen him play some blistering solos with Thad and Mels Band, and also in a variety of small group settings.

Gary Smulyan and Scott Robinson are the baritone players I most enjoy who are currently on the scene.

[Chuck Nessa]

Big dif between solosits and section players - both valuable, but different. Seen recs of both here. Washington, Carney, Chaloff are tops in my book.

[shrugs]

Jimmy Giuffre

Gotta Dance

[brignolafan]

I love Mulligan (I have over 120 LPs and 50 CDs with him as a leader) , but I don't choose to sound that way. My big problem with Carney is the vibrato, though he was the DEFINITIVE section anchor. I have a lot of Chaloff's stuff, but I agree with Pepper Adams's assessment that he had a "nanny-goat" vibrato. I want to like Cecil Payne, but all the recordings I've heard seem to sound buzzy. I want to hear balls-to-the-wall on baritone.

I loved Nick Brignola. In my opinion, he made every instrument he played sound like his main axe. Scott Robinson can do that too. I have great admiration for that kind of doubling prowess.

Bruce Johnstone is a great player. I heard him in Toronto with Don Menza a few years back. He's still sounding good. very soulful, but not a "chops" Player.

Pepper Adams was the man. He developed his own vocabulary and was a completely unique voice on the instrument.

A couple of canadians, one of whom has been mentioned, deserve notice. Chris Mitchell is a friend of mine from halifax, Nova Scotia. I remember when he called to tell me he'd hired Phil Woods to play on his CD. I asked if he was playing alto on those cuts and he said "FUCK NO! Not alongside Phil. Chris is a fine player of all the saxes". Another great Canadian is Charles Papasoff in Montreal. He put 6 baritonists together for his "International baritone Conspiracy" Including Hamiett Bluiett and another great canadian baritone player: David Mott.

Mott is from Chicago but, like pat labarbera, we have claimed him cuz he's lived here longer than he lived in the USA.

http://www.davidmott.com

Of course Glenn Wilson is a monster, Smulyan is the heir apparent to Pepper Adams, and Ronnie Cuber rocks. There are so many more:

Bob Gordon

Tate Houston

Billy Root

Jack Nimitz

Danny Bank

Gene Allen

Howard Johnsos

Ronnie Ross

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

No health problems for Cuber, just taking gigs on tenor to get the work.

That's very good to hear. Thanks Jim.

MG

[garthsj]

Joe Temperley is not exactly chopped liver, either .... and in his heyday, Tony Scott could produce some prodigious sounds out of a baritone sax ..

Edited September 5, 2006 by garthsj