Question for Blue Note Pressing Experts

[dsockel]

I am trying to figure out the whole New York USA deep groove issue.

I understand (or I think I understand) the chronology of the labels themselves.

What I don't understand is how one side of a record can be deep groove and the other not deep groove yet assumed to be pressed at different plants? Aren't records pressed with A and B side stampers at the same time at the same plant (for example the Plastilyte plant)?

Are the stampers (plates) deep groove or does the pressing plant make a deep groove?

I guess can understand how one stamper can be deep groove and the other not, if for example side A of the original stampers wore out quicker than B, and it got replaced with a non- deep groove stamper.

So is the point that both sides of the record had to be pressed at the same plant at the same time?

Do we know for certain that the desirable Plastilyte "P" means anything for certain during the New York USA era? Does it really mean the everything with a P was pressed pre-Liberty takeover? And anything without a P was after the sale to Liberty?

Another question: How long do stampers last? Weren't BN production runs relatively small?

Any thoughts on clarifying this for me is much appreciated.

[porcy62]

I believe you're correct.

Both sides of the record were pressed at the same plant at the same time.

The stampers (plates) has deep groove. (I think).

As for 'P' I am not really sure that everything without it is a 'Liberty', I am sure instead that everything WITH 'P' is pre Liberty.

Edited August 30, 2008 by porcy62

[sidewinder]

Didn't the 'P's in the runout stop towards the end of the NY USA period?

From a previous thread response posted by Peter A. :-

"As far as I know the following pre-4226 BN originals have no ear:

4118 DonaldByrd - Free Form

4171 George Braith - Extension

4193 Art Blakey - Indestructible

4196 Freddie Hubbard - Blue Spirits

4203 Andrew Hill - Andrew!!

4204 Dexter Gordon - Gettin' Around

4206 Sam Rivers - Contours

4209 Hank Mobley - Dippin'

84212 Lee Morgan - The Gigolo

4213 Bobby Hutcherson - Components

4215 Jackie McLean - Right Now!

4217 Andrew Hill - Compulsion!!!!

4218 Jackie McLean - Action

4219 Wayne Shorter - The All Seeing Eye

4222 Lee Morgan - Cornbread"

BN 4226 was 'Mode For Joe' I believe.

[porcy62]

That would support my post.

[clifford_thornton]

4203 and 4212 were not issued until the Liberty era.

[marcello]

This should help you: Blue Note Labelography

[dsockel]

Thanks for all the responses.

As Porcy wrote, everything with a Plastilyte P is definitely pre-Liberty. There are also the list (above 15 titles) that were recorded during the P era, but not released until later. 4074 and prior (with a handful of exceptions like 1597 Burrell) were originally released as double sided deep groove. The deep groove was made by a collar in the stamper.

Looking at my collection, I have quite a few New York USAs that do not have the P. I didn't realize Liberty repressed that many. Oh well.

How many Flat Edge Lexington's have you guys ever seen? I think I have 1.

[Chuck Nessa]

Just to clarify, the P disappeared before the Liberty era.

[adhoc]

The story that's told to me is that at the time machines used to stamp 78rpms were being retrofitted to stamp LPs, and that's how the DG came about.

Given the market today for Blue Note DG pressings, the supreme irony is that Plastylite was apparently a 'cheapo' pressing plant.

[blajay]

time machines used to stamp 78rpms

[adhoc]

Whoops, should have been: 'at the time, machines were being used to stamp 78rpms'

[michel1969]

Looking at my collection, I have quite a few New York USAs that do not have the P. I didn't realize Liberty repressed that many. Oh well.

How many Flat Edge Lexington's have you guys ever seen? I think I have 1.

This is a discovery we all have made one day or another...

I have seen some flat lexingtons....all are mine !! 5065, 5066, 1519 1524, 1533, 1538, 1542 1544 1545 and that's all...