Mono sounds you'd LIKE to hear....

[Big Al]

I was listening to the OJC of 5 by Monk by 5, and the stereo separation made me wish I could hear the mono version sometime in my life. Am I the only one who was born too late and is too cheap to try and track down albums such as the following:

Antonio Carlos Jobim THE COMPOSER OF DESAFINADO PLAYS

Johnny Hodges WITH BILLY STRAYHORN AND THE ORCHESTRA

Thelonious Monk 5 BY MONK BY 5

Art Pepper PLUS TEN and GETTIN' TOGETHER

SONNY ROLLINS AND THE BIG BRASS

STAN GETZ WITH CAL TJADER

Duke Ellington PIANO IN THE BACKGROUND and BLUES IN ORBIT

There's some rock albums I'd like to hear in mono as well:

A lot of Ventures records

THE BIRDS, THE BEES, AND THE MONKEES

What say y'all (especially those of you who weren't around when these records were first issued)?

[stuartjewkes]

I've been interested, on an intellectual level, by mono recordings for a little while now. I've not got around to it yet but I think I'll be picking up the 2cd reissue of Piper at the Gates of Dawn with both the stereo and mono versions of the album out of interest. I'd also like to hear the mono Sgt Peppers.

I'm 24 so quite a bit post-mono, but still interested by the phenomenon.

I'd quite like to get some Dylan mono stuff too.

As for jazz, I'm not too bothered. I did just pick up a mono Oscar Peterson Trio album today so maybe I'l give it a loud and close listen and post my impressions.

On a side note, my favourite band of all time, The Fall, just released a new album that featured only 1 stereo mix. The rest is in pummeling mono but unfortunately, in my opinion, could have done with a few more stereo tracks for the dynamic benefits. As a band they use repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition repetition and the slightest variation can be quite powerful as a result. When they record in mono some of the subtlety seems to disappear.

[Teasing the Korean]

I have "Composer of Desafinado" and it's more full sounding in mono. Most of the Verve jazz/pop stuff from that period sounds better in mono.

Sgt. Pepper - and for that matter all 60s pop/rock up to about 1968 or so - is WAY better in mono.

Over the years, I have upgraded my jazz, pop, and rock albums with mono versions as I've come across them. I have rarely regretted unloading a stereo for a mono.

Also: If you do vinyl, be sure to play mono records with the mono switch engaged. It cuts down on surface noise and groove distortion.

[Big Al]

  Teasing the Korean said:

Over the years, I have upgraded my jazz, pop, and rock albums with mono versions as I've come across them. I have rarely regretted unloading a stereo for a mono.

The only time I regretted that was when I got the Byrds 5D. Wasn't impressed, or at the very least, I thought the stereo mix was a lot more enjoyable.

Completely agree about Sgt. Pepper mono, and a lot of 60's rock & roll mono.

I did hear Dylan's HIGHWAY 61 in mono once; thought it was okay, but one thing I liked about it was what I thought was a nice AM-radio sound to it.

[jazzbo]

Mono shmono. What are youse guys, Steve Hoffman regulars?

[Big Al]

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

Jazz is not music meant for stereo.

this is what i am proposing. Mono is like a real recording. Mono is music as it was meant to be reproduced and heard. Stereo is more gimick-ey// meant for stuff like the strawberry alarm clock and Esquivel. by the way i absouetly adore Esquivel. i dont think u guys have mentioned him here much. have you guys any expierence w/ his music. do you organissmo guys have any repect for esquivel, is i guess what i wanna know.

but anyways jazz sounds better in mono, always have, always will. I like hearing MUSIC. not separeted bullshit. In the 50s and 60s, the social seperation of black people in america took signifcant steps to become less and less. In Jazz, significant steps were taken which added INCREASED SEPERATION to jazz sounds comming out of the lp

what if RVG stuck to mono beacuse Al Lion wanted him to-- what do u think that would of been like

[Shrdlu]

Al, if you run your Monk album (a gem, by the way!) through Nero, there is a pan-in option, which, at its extreme, would collapse it down to mono. It might not be the same as the separately recorded mono mix, which Riverside, Blue Note and others had at that time, but it might be worth a try.

I don't have any problem with most stereo jazz albums, which are usually very good, I think. The stereo sound stage gives a clear sound with more detail than mono.

From about 1964 or so, all mono jazz albums were just collapsed down stereo. I once saw the date on which Rudy Van Gelder abandoned the separate mono recordings.

Funnily enough, most electro/house is almost mono. This is handy, because the right channel of my car stereo recently died, and house still sounds good, whereas stereo jazz CDs sound terrible.

[Big Al]

  Shrdlu said:

Al, if you run your Monk album (a gem, by the way!) through Nero, there is a pan-in option, which, at its extreme, would collapse it down to mono. It might not be the same as the separately recorded mono mix, which Riverside, Blue Note and others had at that time, but it might be worth a try.

I've tried that a couple times with the aforementioned Getz/Tjader and Ellington BLUES IN ORBIT discs. I didn't use Nero, but I did use GoldWave which has a fold-down option. In both cases, the stereo separation was so extreme that you could barely hear the solo instruments (Getz in the former case; Hodges in the latter).

What's the Nero software you're talking about? Maybe that would be an improvement over GoldWave.

[jazzbo]

Interesting, but I've not the same problem with either the Getz/Tjader nor the Ellington. . . cds. Are we talking cds here?

[Shawn]

Those "fold down" options usually have advanced settings, sometimes they reduce the level of the tracks before combining...that's what you don't want. I'll play around with a couple free programs this evening and get back to you with suggestions.

The only records I've ever felt the desire to collapse were the Time recordings.

[Shawn]

  Quote

Mono is music as it was meant to be reproduced and heard

Have to disagree with this, humans have two ears for a reason...

[stuartjewkes]

I do think that some Jazz albums work far better as stereo. I couldn't imagine The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady in anything but stereo and the Coltrane Village Vangard box (in my opinion) benefits from the stereo seperation. It's sometimes ideal, when listening to solos closely, to have one person in te left, the other in the right. All my opinion obviously.

[Rosco]

The problem isn't the stereo, it's the way that the stereo image is used, particularly in the early days. The stereo mix of Thelonious Monk with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers had Monk in one channel, and the Messengers in the other- not a pleasant listening experience (especially with headphones), particularly as Monk goes long stretches without playing (bassist Spanky DeBrest is practically inaudible, too). The mono version is fuller, punchier and more integrated.

I had a similar experience recently when i bought The Straight Horn of Steve Lacy, the sound of which irked me so much I did my own 'remix', boosting the bass frequencies and narrowing the stereo image (not quite to mono, though).

[Teasing the Korean]

  Rosco said:

The problem isn't the stereo, it's the way that the stereo image is used, particularly in the early days...

Exactly.

[Big Al]

  Teasing the Korean said:

  Rosco said:

The problem isn't the stereo, it's the way that the stereo image is used, particularly in the early days...

Exactly.

[Big Al]

  jazzbo said:

Interesting, but I've not the same problem with either the Getz/Tjader nor the Ellington. . . cds. Are we talking cds here?

With the Getz/Tjader, it's the Fantasy Hybrid SACD CD-layer (how's that for Hoffmanese? ), the Ellington was the Legacy reissue.

[jazzbo]

Well I don't have the Tjader in anything other than the regular OJC and don't have a problem. I have both the Mobile Fidelity and the Legacy of the Ellington, and don't have a problem.

Maybe it's stereo system differences or something. I think the Ellington is a beautiful stereo recording. Columbia had some of the best at the time to my ears.

[Big Al]

  jazzbo said:

Well I don't have the Tjader in anything other than the regular OJC and don't have a problem. I have both the Mobile Fidelity and the Legacy of the Ellington, and don't have a problem.

Maybe it's stereo system differences or something. I think the Ellington is a beautiful stereo recording. Columbia had some of the best at the time to my ears.

Yeah, IIRC, the OJC of Getz/Tjader didn't have the wide stereo separation the SACD has. As far as the Ellington goes, diff'rent strokes, diff'rent ears I guess.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

lol yes humans have two ears, but isnt the sound FOLDED DOWN TO MONO by the *BRAIN*??????

[RDK]

  chewy said:

lol yes humans have two ears, but isnt the sound FOLDED DOWN TO MONO by the *BRAIN*??????

no.

[Shawn]

  RDK said:

  chewy said:

lol yes humans have two ears, but isnt the sound FOLDED DOWN TO MONO by the *BRAIN*??????

no.

what he said

[Big Al]

Come on.... y'all are talking like you know what stuff sounds like inside Aric's brain....

[RDK]

  Big Al said:

Come on.... y'all are talking like you know what stuff sounds like inside Aric's brain....

good point.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

by the way, was talking to my grandpa about my thory, how even if its a stereo lp once it gets inside yr head its folded down to mono, he said its just the opposite- the brain does processes the seperate sounds seperately, and the way human hearing works it gives you a sence of direction, and then he had to hang up but hell call me back and tell me more later