Madmen - The TV Show

[Teasing the Korean]

I really loved the first season of this show and so far I've found the second season to be every bit as riveting. The show really captures both the good and bad of that era. Any watchers?

[catesta]

Yeah, right here.

Never watched until a few weeks ago when AMC was running a first season marathon and it hooked me.

The show is very well produced with a lot of attention paid to details.

[Larry Kart]

Others may disagree, but having been a teen and then a young adult in that era, I found the first few episodes of the show to be ludicrously overdrawn and/or "Let's just make up some shit -- Who the hell will know the difference?" absurd, and stopped watching, though I'm well aware that bizarre entertainment-industry fantasies about times one has direct experience of are what all of us have to look forward to. One potential corrective would be to watch some of the many films of that era that attempted to grapple with aspects of that present at that time. Lord knows, the range is broad -- from solemnly pinched board room dramas like "Executive Suite," to comedies of sentiment like "The Apartment," to dark satires like "Sweet Smell of Success" -- and no one would say that those films themselves were not fables to some extent, but they couldn't help but be anchored in their times in terms of verisimilitude of behavior, decor, etc., etc. to a degree that made "Mad Men" seem (at least to me) ... mad. The simplest thing, and among the most basic (because of what the guys in "Mad Men" do for a living), is the smoking. Of course, people smoked like chimneys then -- I was one of them when I was old enough to get away with it -- but they didn't smoke demonstratively, as everyone I saw on "Mad Men" seemed to do. There was no reason or need to; smoking a whole lot was ordinary then. Geez, you'd think they'd get that right.

I'm reminded of the era of the so-called "adult western" -- films that, in their "At last, in this brave new modern-era we can tell the truth about the myths of the Old West" strategies, essentially substituted an even more mythical (though of course grubbier on the surface) "truth" for the old myths -- which at their best had a potent organic coherence, while the new stuff was often merely and thinly "wised up" (I except "The Wild Bunch" from this blanket condemnation).

Back to "Mad Men" -- it's not the same social setting or era, but for films of not too distant vintage that IMO convincingly recreate the feel of times prior to the times in which they were made, I think that Scorsese's "Good Fellas" and "Casino" show what can be done. But then I'm among those admirers of Douglas Sirk's "All That Heaven Allows" (potent '50s essences divined and bottled at the time, which is when I first saw it) who despised "Far From Heaven" (2002), Todd Haynes' period recreation of/ variant on "All That Heaven Allows," which tried to turn the tale into an inter-racial romance from one in which the barriers to be crossed are those of class, age, and propriety. Not an impossible task, and certainly not a dishonorable one, but Haynes' methods had some of that implicitly wised-up, "We know better; we're adults now" smugness that spells death for drama.

[Teasing the Korean]

Interesting take, Larry.

I have one issue with Madmen, and that is this: I think the directors went too far to NOT make Don Draper's house look too mid-century futuristic Jetsons. I understand the rationale, but I think an upwardly mobile ad exec in 1960 would have had hipper, more moderne decor in his house than Draper does.

[Dan Gould]

I've never watched but my Mother, who is quite a bit older than Larry, is quite taken both with the show and what she considers the accuracy of the depictions.

[catesta]

Yeah, I don't like it either.

[Harold_Z]

I'm attempting to get into it this season. Didn't see any of the first season so I'm trying to figure out who's who. I've been recording it to dvr and have only seen the first two episodes of season two. So many people think so highly of it I assume it's worth the effort.

I agree with Larry's point about the smoking. Another (what I thought was unrealistic having been a teenager in the 60s) scene that was off the mark was a party scene where the records that were being played as party music were what I would say teenagers at that time were listening to - NOT adults. They would have had a shitload of Sinatra, Tony Bennett, etc. NOT motownish pop.

[Teasing the Korean]

...Another (what I thought was unrealistic having been a teenager in the 60s) scene that was off the mark was a party scene where the records that were being played as party music were what I would say teenagers at that time were listening to - NOT adults. They would have had a shitload of Sinatra, Tony Bennett, etc. NOT motownish pop.

Have you read Tom Wolfe's piece about what hipsters were listening to in the pre-Beatles 1960s?

[catesta]

I'm attempting to get into it this season. Didn't see any of the first season so I'm trying to figure out who's who. I've been recording it to dvr and have only seen the first two episodes of season two. So many people think so highly of it I assume it's worth the effort.

I agree with Larry's point about the smoking. Another (what I thought was unrealistic having been a teenager in the 60s) scene that was off the mark was a party scene where the records that were being played as party music were what I would say teenagers at that time were listening to - NOT adults. They would have had a shitload of Sinatra, Tony Bennett, etc. NOT motownish pop.

I think that whole crowd was probably mid 20s at best.

[Teasing the Korean]

I think that whole crowd was probably mid 20s at best.

Yes, it was the younger crowd from the office.

[jlhoots]

I'm attempting to get into it this season. Didn't see any of the first season so I'm trying to figure out who's who. I've been recording it to dvr and have only seen the first two episodes of season two. So many people think so highly of it I assume it's worth the effort.

Exactly the situation I'm in.

I'm not sure I completely get it at this point, but I'll keep trying for at least a few more episodes.

[Kalo]

Larry nailed it with the phrase "Smoked demonstratively."

Too much damned italicization of stuff that was normative at the time.

Feh!

[Harold_Z]

...Another (what I thought was unrealistic having been a teenager in the 60s) scene that was off the mark was a party scene where the records that were being played as party music were what I would say teenagers at that time were listening to - NOT adults. They would have had a shitload of Sinatra, Tony Bennett, etc. NOT motownish pop.

Have you read Tom Wolfe's piece about what hipsters were listening to in the pre-Beatles 1960s?

Haven't read it but I'm curious. Whazzup?

[Harold_Z]

I'm attempting to get into it this season. Didn't see any of the first season so I'm trying to figure out who's who. I've been recording it to dvr and have only seen the first two episodes of season two. So many people think so highly of it I assume it's worth the effort.

I agree with Larry's point about the smoking. Another (what I thought was unrealistic having been a teenager in the 60s) scene that was off the mark was a party scene where the records that were being played as party music were what I would say teenagers at that time were listening to - NOT adults. They would have had a shitload of Sinatra, Tony Bennett, etc. NOT motownish pop.

I think that whole crowd was probably mid 20s at best.

Even so - it didn't strike me right. Not the way I remember those times.

I have the third episode on the DVR and I'll give it a shot probably tonight or tomorrow.

[catesta]

The excessive smoking thing is a valid point, but I think the show is good enough to look past that.

Plus, the lead character's (Ron Draper) wife looked pretty damn good in those riding pants.

[TedR]

My favorite line from the first season is at a beatnik party where one of the beats tells Don Draper "We're gonna get high and listen to some Miles". I think Sketches of Spain is playing in the background.

[BruceH]

Back to "Mad Men" -- it's not the same social setting or era, but for films of not too distant vintage that IMO convincingly recreate the feel of times prior to the times in which they were made, I think that Scorsese's "Good Fellas" and "Casino" show what can be done. But then I'm among those admirers of Douglas Sirk's "All That Heaven Allows" (potent '50s essences divined and bottled at the time, which is when I first saw it) who despised "Far From Heaven" (2002), Todd Haynes' period recreation of/ variant on "All That Heaven Allows," which tried to turn the tale into an inter-racial romance from one in which the barriers to be crossed are those of class, age, and propriety. Not an impossible task, and certainly not a dishonorable one, but Haynes' methods had some of that implicitly wised-up, "We know better; we're adults now" smugness that spells death for drama.

Plus, making the husband a closeted gay guy seemed a bit much.

[Larry Kart]

My favorite line from the first season is at a beatnik party where one of the beats tells Don Draper "We're gonna get high and listen to some Miles". I think Sketches of Spain is playing in the background.

He didn't say, "We're gonna get high and listen to some Miles, man"?

[JohnS]

I kept watching. Not sure why as not a great deal seemed to happen. There must have been some sort of pleasure there. It was shown in the UK on BBC so no ads so the show ran for a maximum of 40 minutes. Any longer and I doubt if I'd have stuck with it regularly.

[TedR]

I knew using quotation marks might be risky. Now my wife wants to try to find that episode and get the exact quote. I told her "No way, man".

[catesta]

I think it was just, "We’re going to get high and listen to Miles".

[BruceH]

I think it was just, "We’re going to get high and listen to Miles".

Ah, the good old days.

[Larry Kart]

I knew using quotation marks might be risky. Now my wife wants to try to find that episode and get the exact quote. I told her "No way, man".

I wasn't questioning the quote for real, just trying to make a little joke.

[Harold_Z]

I watched the third episode of season two tonight. I'm enjoying it and starting to get a handle on it. I'd still like to see season one and I'll probably end up buying it on dvd when it comes out if I haven't seen it by then. So if I'm making that commitment I guess I'm digging it.

Most of the acting is good but I'm not sure if what I sometimes see as anachronism isn't performance related. In any event the main characters seem to have it down so I'll try not to nit pick - except when I have to.

[Dave Garrett]

I watched the third episode of season two tonight. I'm enjoying it and starting to get a handle on it. I'd still like to see season one and I'll probably end up buying it on dvd when it comes out if I haven't seen it by then.

Season one came out on DVD several weeks ago.