oud, bass, piano trios

[alocispepraluger102]

can anyone suggest any trio recordings with this very beautiful combination other than this one with:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=28879

[Niko]

can anyone suggest any trio recordings with this very beautiful combination other than this one with:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=28879

anouar brahem has several trio recordings with oud and piano or bass... (like oud, piano accordion or oud, saxophone, bass)

http://www.anouarbrahem.com/

[mikeweil]

I find the oud and the piano a mismatch - due to the largely different tonal systems underlying the development of these instruments, one has to chose one system, which must the Western equal temperament, as it is impossible to re-tune the piano each time one changes the traditional Arab maqam. So the oud is tuned to a Western scale and looses much of its tonal charm. I don't like it. The piano should be avoided whenever non-Western instruments tuned according to other tonal systems are involved. Horns and bass are okay, guitars to a certain extent, but the guitarist needs to understand the non-Western tonal systems and must avoids conventional thinking in chord sequences and harmonic functions, but select chords according to their sound only.

For this reason I find Rabih Abou-Khalil's recent recording with Joachim Kühn a failed experiment, not mentioning the fact that a piano overpowers the oud if the latter is unamplified.

[papsrus]

I'd second the Anouar Brahem rec. From what I know of his music, it draws fairly strongly on Middle Eastern influences.

Astrakan Cafe is a trio with Anouar Brahem on oud, Barbaros Erkose on clarinet and Lassad Hosni on bendir, darbouka (percussion). Beautiful.

For something with a little more European/classical influence, there's also his album "Le Pas Du Chat Noir"

Personnel: Anouar Brahem (oud); Jean-Louis Matinier (accordion); Francois Couturier (piano).

Taking mikeweil's criticisms of the piano into account, this is nonetheless a gorgeous CD with Couturier, IMO.

Edited August 8, 2008 by papsrus

[mikeweil]

I'd second the Anouar Brahem rec. From what I know of his music, it draws fairly strongly on Middle Eastern influences.

Since he's from Tunisia and one of the country's acclaimed oud masters, it should ...

Astrakan Cafe is a trio with Anouar Brahem on oud, Barbaros Erkose on clarinet and Lassad Hosni on bendir, darbouka (percussion). Beautiful.

Agreed - I heard this trio live - a little restrained, but beautiful. No piano here, fortunately ...

For something with a little more European/classical influence, there's also his album "Le Pas Du Chat Noir"

Personnel: Anouar Brahem (oud); Jean-Louis Matinier (accordion); Francois Couturier (piano).

Taking mikeweil's criticisms of the piano into account, this is nonetheless a gorgeous CD with Couturier, IMO.

Haven't heard this, only a more recent one with piano - I stick to my skepticism towards piano and Arab scales. Makes it sound like film music, somehow - themes in sarch of movies (Brahem did some soundtracks, and his music works great as such).

Edited August 8, 2008 by mikeweil

[seeline]

I'd second the Anouar Brahem rec. From what I know of his music, it draws fairly strongly on Middle Eastern influences.

Since he's from Tunisia and one of the country's acclaimed oud masters, it should ...

Astrakan Cafe is a trio with Anouar Brahem on oud, Barbaros Erkose on clarinet and Lassad Hosni on bendir, darbouka (percussion). Beautiful.

Agreed - I heard this trio live - a little restrained, but beautiful. No piano here, fortunately ...

For something with a little more European/classical influence, there's also his album "Le Pas Du Chat Noir"

Personnel: Anouar Brahem (oud); Jean-Louis Matinier (accordion); Francois Couturier (piano).

Taking mikeweil's criticisms of the piano into account, this is nonetheless a gorgeous CD with Couturier, IMO.

Haven't heard this, only a more recent one with piano - I stick to my skepticism towards piano and Arab scales. Makes it sound like film music, somehow - themes in sarch of movies (Brahem did some soundtracks, and his music works great as such).

I can understand your skepticism, but I think people who do know the music can make something good with this combination - like Roman Bunka and Fathy Salama on this release -

and Rabih Abou-Khalil with Joachim Kuhn here -

but - it's not easy to do well! I have to wonder if anyone is retuning acoustic pianos for this (as in Burmese music), or if most are sticking with electronic keyboards - it's so much easier to use the latter to get the correct intervals. Quarter-tone keyboards took the Arab world by storm early in the last decade (to an annoying degree, I think!) - understandable because they're so compact and allow keyboard players to do the work of several instruments all by themselves...

As for A. Brahem, I like him, but I think it's important to note that his pieces are mostly through-composed. I was very surprised to hear his group play the pieces on Astrakan Café without much - if any - deviation from the way they were recorded. One reason that struck me as odd is that Barbaros Erköse (Turkish clarinet player) is such a fluid improvisor!

Edited to add: the Roman Bunka album is live and well worth hunting down. Fathy Salama (piano) is Egyptian and did the charts for this recent release by Youssou N'Dour (not an oud album, but beautiful all the same) -

mike, I think you're right about Brahem's music working as "soundtrack" stuff even when it's not meant for that purpose. There's something about the way his ECM stuff is recorded that - to me - makes even the most up-tempo, lively cuts recede into the background. Maybe it's the final mix that does it?

Edited August 8, 2008 by seeline

[alocispepraluger102]

http://www.errachidia.org/webcam/video-Yit...fwXps9V-tU.html Edited August 9, 2008 by alocispepraluger102

[WorldB3]

if you don't mind the addition of Drums to the Oud, Bass and Piano format Continuo by Avishai Cohen is worth checking out.

[mikeweil]

As for A. Brahem, I like him, but I think it's important to note that his pieces are mostly through-composed. I was very surprised to hear his group play the pieces on Astrakan Café without much - if any - deviation from the way they were recorded. One reason that struck me as odd is that Barbaros Erköse (Turkish clarinet player) is such a fluid improvisor!

That's an aspect of Brahem's music that disappoints me a little - as I said, I saw that trio live, and it was beautiful but at the same time very controlled, almost restrained, although Erköse got around to some more ecstatic playing than on the CD.

Edited to add: the Roman Bunka album is live and well worth hunting down. Fathy Salama (piano) is Egyptian and did the charts for this recent release by Youssou N'Dour (not an oud album, but beautiful all the same) -

I'll have to look for the Bunka - he's a long standing world music pioneer on the German scene, and one of the first to play oud in such a context.

I was given Egypt as a gift a while ago - indeed a very beautiful album!

mike, I think you're right about Brahem's music working as "soundtrack" stuff even when it's not meant for that purpose. There's something about the way his ECM stuff is recorded that - to me - makes even the most up-tempo, lively cuts recede into the background. Maybe it's the final mix that does it?

Could be - I never liked that spacy ECM sound, and in these cases, it tends to kill the groove.

[seeline]

Mike, I think the Roman Bunka album works much better than the Abou-Khalil/Kuhn disc... it's surprisingly good, IMO.

I guess part of the "problem" is that musicians from the Middle East are very familiar with our music, but the reverse isn't true - so we tend to mess up when we try to play it. A. Abdul-Malik's albums as a leader are (I think) a case in point.

ECM "spaciness": Yeah. It kills Egberto Gismont's music, too. I still can't get over how different his recordings for EMI Brasil and his own label (Carmo) are - like, there really *is* a groove! There's a sterility on Brahem's 1st album that carries over into the pieces that should groove like crazy - very disappointing. (I've never gotten over it, either! )

Edited August 9, 2008 by seeline