Cultural level in the U.S.

[BruceH]

Or they're so conditioned by movies and television that they feel their life needs a soundtrack...

I know MINE does! Half the reason I listen to Mobley and Tina Brooks is to provide that needed soundtrack.

[David Ayers]

If this line of thought is to be pursued, an analysis of why the majority of cultured and intelligent people find jazz boring or of limited interest would also need to be put in place.

Also, if we don't ourselves keep up on concert music, opera, theatre, art exhibitions, fiction and poetry pretty much anything we say about people who don't like jazz applies to us too.

[Simon Weil]

If this line of thought is to be pursued, an analysis of why the majority of cultured and intelligent people find jazz boring or of limited interest would also need to be put in place.

I think that is fundamentally because Jazz doesn't lend itself easily to the verbalization which is required for quality discussion. In part that's because it's music - i.e. rooted in non-verbal concepts. And in part it's because it's so rooted in on-the-spot improvisation - i.e. based in something unplanned and thus unknowable except in retrospect. This in contrast to going to a play (say) where the guy is dealing with x, y and z issues, which he probably conceptualizes in verbal terms - and we can likewise discuss them in verbal terms. And, further, whatever these issues are - x, y and z - that's what the final performance of the play is going to be determined by. But with Jazz, while there may be some programmatic performances - or elements of the programmatic to a performance, still we have the unknowable and unquantifable elements which are really why people go to the performance in the first place, to be excited and surprised etc, etc.

But I have a suspicion that Jazz people like to keep Jazz mysterious and "theirs".

Simon Weil

[Shrdlu]

Hey, Jacman, you forgot a turkey call in your codger kit - which I enjoyed, by the way.

That's very pertinent about "cultured" people usually not liking jazz, David. I have liked jazz since I was a toddler, and have had to put up with it being looked down upon by many classical music lovers all my life. I was thinking again about this a few days ago, when the issue came up in the notes for a Benny Goodman set. It is ridiculous for anyone to dismiss jazz as supposedly low-class music. Granted, some performances stink, notably a lot of fifties and sixties "trad", but obviously the vast majority of jazz recordings are musically excellent. They are not inferior, just different. The classical snobs who dismiss jazz apparently fail to notice that most famous jazz musicians are masters of their instruments, and a lot are superb arrangers, too.

Arturo Toscanini was a notable exception, who told the trombone section to listen to Tommy Dorsey to hear a fine player.

[Shrdlu]

Getting back to the level of American culture, have you watched Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" recently? I don't know whether they deliberately pick the most stupid and ignorant people; I hope not.

The funniest one that I recall was a girl who was asked what the Canadian term for "president" is. She said, "Oh, I don't think they have a president. They just have a mayor."

[A Lark Ascending]

The Director walked slowly down the long line of cots. Rosy and relaxed with sleep, eighty little boys and girls lay softly breathing. There was a whisper under every pillow. The D.H.C. halted and, bending over one of the little beds, listened attentively.

"Elementary Class Consciousness, did you say? Let's have it repeated a little louder by the trumpet."

At the end of the room a loud speaker projected from the wall. The Director walked up to it and pressed a switch.

"… all wear green," said a soft but very distinct voice, beginning in the middle of a sentence, "and Delta Children wear khaki. Oh no, I don't want to play with Delta children. And Epsilons are still worse. They're too stupid to be able to read or write. Besides they wear black, which is such a beastly colour. I'm so glad I'm a Beta."

There was a pause; then the voice began again.

"Alpha children wear grey They work much harder than we do, because they're so frightfully clever. I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard. And then we are much better than the Gammas and Deltas. Gammas are stupid. They all wear green, and Delta children wear khaki. Oh no, I don't want to play with Delta children. And Epsilons are still worse. They're too stupid to be able …"

The Director pushed back the switch. The voice was silent. Only its thin ghost continued to mutter from beneath the eighty pillows.

From Brave New World, Aldous Huxley

Edited October 21, 2003 by Bev Stapleton

[Jazzmoose]

Bev sure knows how to cut to the chase on these discussions, doesn't he?