Blogspots...

[king ubu]

When all this is said and done, I still feel this is a "oh, poor me" record company bs. This really ain't affecting us musicians.... unless you're elvis' estate or boy george. Music blogs are spreading the message of music and that's the best thing that can be done FOR music....especially lesser known pieces. Just my opinion, feel free to call me a retard or adolescent.

Plus the fact that reportedly most musicians earn their living with concerts while CD productions often has them pay... so here's a positive aspect to blogging, too - also for instance when I put up some samples from various Potlatch releases on my blog and let the owner/producer know, he was very pleased about getting some promotion...

[Dan Gould]

Dude...are you REALLY that hung up on Halle Berry? Just wondering...it takes up half my screen....

Dude...are you REALLY that hung up on Halle Berry? Just wondering...it takes up half my screen....

yes

I'm TOTALLY fine with that.

Edit to add: Why the hell did you just change it?

Yeah, those were some pretty hot pictures but was it the angle or something that made her left boob look different from the right? Or maybe it was the fit of the bikini. Whatever, it was distracting, and not in the way intended.

But would you bring it back anyway, Evan?

[Aggie87]

So what's wrong with buying a download of the same material - let's even say for the same $15 as your lossless example - and burning it to a disc and selling the "used" CD-R for $5? Everyone's still making the same money, there's still the same number of copies out there (provided you delete your lossless files of course) - the only difference is in which entity is actually making the physical disc.

I don't suppose it's any different than re-selling a legitimate CD that you've purchased, conceptually (assuming you did delete the original files).

I'm not sure you'd ever convince anyone to buy a CD-R that you burned for $5, regardless of whether the music on it is "legitimate" or not. I don't think a CDR of burned music is going to have anywhere near the resale value of a real CD. Most people would assume it's probably either a copy of a legitimate CD, or music that you downloaded illegally somewhere.

[Bright Moments]

Dude...are you REALLY that hung up on Halle Berry? Just wondering...it takes up half my screen....

Dude...are you REALLY that hung up on Halle Berry? Just wondering...it takes up half my screen....

yes

I'm TOTALLY fine with that.

Edit to add: Why the hell did you just change it?

Yeah, those were some pretty hot pictures but was it the angle or something that made her left boob look different from the right? Or maybe it was the fit of the bikini. Whatever, it was distracting, and not in the way intended.

But would you bring it back anyway, Evan?

sorry dan but those pics, like beauty itself, are fleeting. hope my new one suffices.

[papsrus]

Is anyone familiar with the Greenleaf Music site? It's Dave Douglas' web site that he's developed to promote and sell his music. He offers FLAC DLs of his music; you can order CDs there too, of course; subscribers get regular offers of free bonus tracks not available anywhere else; there's tons of recording and touring information. It's a small stable of artists right now, but it seems to me like a great business model for musician-run site (or small label site, maybe).

It's the "value-added" model, basically. I would fit Organissimo into this model as well. Different set of fringe benefits, but I would never have known about the band nor purchased their CD if not for the web site. ...

I'm more interested as a consumer in these sorts of models, which promote and support the development of new music, than I am in some guy offering OOP stuff that may (or may not) harm the artists and hurt the development of future music projects.

As an aside, this obsession with collecting -- to the point where someone without a turntable is buying up expensive vinyl -- is not really a healthy thing, IMO.

Edited July 29, 2008 by papsrus

[Shawn]

Is anyone familiar with the Greenleaf Music site? It's Dave Douglas' web site that he's developed to promote and sell his music. He offers FLAC DLs of his music; you can order CDs there too, of course; subscribers get regular offers of free bonus tracks not available anywhere else; there's tons of recording and touring information. It's a small stable of artists right now, but it seems to me like a great business model for musician-run site (or small label site, maybe).

It's the "value-added" model, basically. I would fit Organissimo into this model as well. Different set of fringe benefits, but I would never have known about the band nor purchased their CD if not for the web site. ...

I'm more interested as a consumer in these sorts of models, which promote and support the development of new music, than I am in some guy offering OOP stuff that may (or may not) harm the artists and hurt the development of future music projects.

As an aside, this obsession with collecting -- to the point where someone without a turntable is buying up expensive vinyl -- is not really a healthy thing, IMO.

Very similar to what Robert Fripp is doing at his DGM Live site. He also offers the downloads in either mp3 or FLAC (at different price points) so he's giving the power of choice to the consumer...what a concept!

[Jim Alfredson]

I disagree with Soul Stream that it doesn't affect small-time musicians. If you're producing and releasing your own CDs, it certainly does hurt financially. But there's nothing that can be done about it, so you have to factor that in as a "cost of doing business".

I would hope that if someone downloaded one of our CDs for free from where-ever, if they liked it they would buy the actual CD. But that probably doesn't happen very often.

As far as the links go, I still think posting and dicussing links to copyrighted material is more trouble than it's worth for me and this site.

[1009]

Just to clarify (re: Paps):

I've purchased vinyl (despite not owning a turntable); not expensive vinyl. I don't think I've ever spent more than $10 or $12US on used vinyl. The idea is not to own the object but to (eventually, some day), own & be able to play a great copy of music I already know I love.

Ex: Braxton's Montreux/Berlin. I've actually tried a few times (via craigslist) to get somebody to digitize it for me. No luck so far (people sometimes want in excess of $100!). Sure, I already have a digital rip from a blog (sorry! I hate the word too!), but with the vinyl I can make a better rip for myself.

Of course in this case my effort is moot because of the looming release of Braxton's Aristas. As soon as I can afford those you bet I'll buy one.

[WD45]

Here is a small poll and some discussion on the matter at Geeksugar

[Soul Stream]

I disagree with Soul Stream that it doesn't affect small-time musicians. If you're producing and releasing your own CDs, it certainly does hurt financially. But there's nothing that can be done about it, so you have to factor that in as a "cost of doing business".

I would hope that if someone downloaded one of our CDs for free from where-ever, if they liked it they would buy the actual CD. But that probably doesn't happen very often.

As far as the links go, I still think posting and dicussing links to copyrighted material is more trouble than it's worth for me and this site.

Jim, I guess my thought process on the issue goes something like this. Illegal downloading is a small price to pay for all the advantages of the internet. Look at it this way, you've got a website (with a bulletin board and lots of members...some who even paid to help make the CD, very nice), mypsace site to promote yourself, can sell your CDs and downloads many places on the web, ect. You get the picture. So, some losers may download your album and not pay for it. Balanced out with all the advantages of the Web, it seems like small potatoes. I don't think you can have the pleasures of the internet without illegal downloading. So, if you want to turn back the hands of time before the internet, would you? Seems like it would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[papsrus]

Just to clarify (re: Paps):

I've purchased vinyl (despite not owning a turntable); not expensive vinyl. I don't think I've ever spent more than $10 or $12US on used vinyl. The idea is not to own the object but to (eventually, some day), own & be able to play a great copy of music I already know I love.

Ex: Braxton's Montreux/Berlin. I've actually tried a few times (via craigslist) to get somebody to digitize it for me. No luck so far (people sometimes want in excess of $100!). Sure, I already have a digital rip from a blog (sorry! I hate the word too!), but with the vinyl I can make a better rip for myself.

Of course in this case my effort is moot because of the looming release of Braxton's Aristas. As soon as I can afford those you bet I'll buy one.

Well, Montreux/Berlin I can understand ...

[.:.impossible]

There's a "traditional" radio station here in town that plays music outside of the mainstream. Great, except for the fact that they have resorted to the same rotation-style format where a song is run into the ground before I even hear the artists' name.

I know that radio is on its way out as the internet becomes more omnipresent with wireless devices. I think that, in a lot of ways, the folks that are posting long-lost albums (regardless of their availability), are part of the changing landscape. Regardless of their intentions, it seems to me they serve a similar purpose that radio once did. Unfortunately, the files that are downloaded from their sites are semi-permanent, preventing unappreciative folks from buying artists', producers', engineers', etc work.

I'm drawing a blank on what it was, but I recall downloading a trial version of something years ago that actually deteriorated over time until it was just white noise.

[ghost of miles]

Is anyone familiar with the Greenleaf Music site? It's Dave Douglas' web site that he's developed to promote and sell his music. He offers FLAC DLs of his music; you can order CDs there too, of course; subscribers get regular offers of free bonus tracks not available anywhere else; there's tons of recording and touring information. It's a small stable of artists right now, but it seems to me like a great business model for musician-run site (or small label site, maybe).

I read an interview with Douglas a couple of years ago in which he mentioned (with a more bemused air than I would've mustered) a fan handing him a cd-r of one of his releases and asking him to sign it.

[RDK]

Is anyone familiar with the Greenleaf Music site? It's Dave Douglas' web site that he's developed to promote and sell his music. He offers FLAC DLs of his music; you can order CDs there too, of course; subscribers get regular offers of free bonus tracks not available anywhere else; there's tons of recording and touring information. It's a small stable of artists right now, but it seems to me like a great business model for musician-run site (or small label site, maybe).

I read an interview with Douglas a couple of years ago in which he mentioned (with a more bemused air than I would've mustered) a fan handing him a cd-r of one of his releases and asking him to sign it.

Digital revolution or otherwise, cluelessness will never go out of style.

[WD45]

Someone made mention earlier in the thread about the majors devaluing their own product.

For instance, this 30-disc Elgar box from EMI. At just over $2/disc shipped, that seems to fulfill the notion of devaluation. There have been gray-market labels doing the many-disc cheapies for some time, but this is EMI, used to charging at least $5.99/disc on the most budget of budget releases. More often they are released at the $11.99 retail price point. Why this change now?

[Dan Gould]

As for the music offered on the site that shall now remain nameless, I just looked at his latest posting:

Disco-fied by Rhythm Heritage.

And check out the first two cuts:

The title track

Caravan

Does anyone really want to hear a disco-fied version of "Caravan"? I don't even want to hear another jazz version of "Caravan" but that deserves a thousand 's

[JSngry]

I wanna hear Caravan with a drum solo!

[Swinging Swede]

Btw, they have a word for people who object to posting material that's available on CD:

Haters.

[JSngry]

Have Shirley Scott's Cadet sides ever been legitmately reissued on CD anywhere in the world?

[Jim Alfredson]

Some of them have been released on Collectables, I think. Then again, I could be wrong.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Call me a cynic, Tom, but I gotta think, based on pst performance, that either plenty of stuff will still fall between the cracks (if only becoause of ignorance of its existance by the people doing the collating) or else that "owned and digitized" will not always translate into "ready and available".

However, I could be wrong, and will be quite glad to be!

Hey, they eventually found the Dean Benedetti tapes!

OK, wake me when the entire output of the KSF (the sixth biggest company in my collection, more than Sony/BMG), Jololi, Touba K7, Pyramide Culturelle labels in Senegal; Super Selection, CDS, AMC, D D United labels in Guinea; and Oubien, Maikano and CK7 labels in Mali is available in this format. I'll subscribe!!!!!

MG

[JSngry]

Have Shirley Scott's Cadet sides ever been legitmately reissued on CD anywhere in the world?

Some of them have been released on Collectables, I think. Then again, I could be wrong.

Yessir, I believe you are. Collectibles has released some (all?) of her Atlantic recordings, none of the Cadets.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Have Shirley Scott's Cadet sides ever been legitmately reissued on CD anywhere in the world?

Some of them have been released on Collectables, I think. Then again, I could be wrong.

Yessir, I believe you are. Collectibles has released some (all?) of her Atlantic recordings, none of the Cadets.

I think I remember seeing one or two of them listed on obi strips on a few CDs I got from Japan a few years ago when they were doing a big Soul Jazz reissue splash (the series where they had dance steps on the pic behind the tray). "Superstition" might have been one and the other might have been the one where she does that dreary Elton John song; I used to have that one on LP but got rid of it on grounds of exceptional disappointment - given the personnel. It put me off exploring the other ones she made for Cadet.

MG

[JSngry]

Lean On Me is a freakin' gem! Not "perfect", but...

[Jim Alfredson]

See, for some reason I have a memory of getting that one on CD somewhere. Then again, maybe I just have the vinyl. I'm too lazy to look.