dave9199 Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Don't you have anything better to do? But seriously, are they all worth it? I've asked this on the ol' BNBB and I'm waiting for the Cellar Door sets to come out as it seemed that was most people's pick as best; but now having listen to the Jack Johnson box (all I can say is; I dig it!), it makes me curious again about the live sets again. Quote
JSngry Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 ...are they all worth it? I think so. The stuff with the Cosey/Lucas/Henderson/Mtume/Foster rhythm section can be variable (although the BLACK SATIN bootleg by this band w/Dave Liebman may very well be the very best Electric Miles album ever in terms of it being totally integrated group music), but it's never less than very good. The rest of it is pretty much exceptional, in my opinion, at least what I've heard of it (quite a bit, but by no means all). And - the "Lost Quintet" stuff w/Shorter. Corea, Holland, & DeJohnette is like nothing anybody has done before or since. Quote
jazzbo Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 I've been collecting this material for several decades. . . and I agree with Jim entirely. I'll grab any of it that I can, I love this music, it's not much like anything else. I"m dying to hear the Cellar Door material! Quote
WD45 Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 It is interesting that both of the last two posts talk about this period of Miles as sounding like nothing before of after. This begs the question--Why not? We can't be the only ones into that sound. Why has no other group tried this in a similar way/sound? Maybe someone has and I just haven't heard it... I know some of the groove and "kosmigroove" acts out there sound like they might have listened to some of this stuff, but we don't have bands coppin' it wholesale like we do the second quintet. Quote
John B Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 This begs the question--Why not? We can't be the only ones into that sound. Why has no other group tried this in a similar way/sound? Maybe someone has and I just haven't heard it... Have you heard the Springheel Jack discs on the Thirsty Ear Blue Series (Masses, Amassed and the live disc?) I think many people would argue that these are directly inspired by this period of Miles and its sound. Quote
Guy Berger Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Don't you have anything better to do? But seriously, are they all worth it? I've asked this on the ol' BNBB and I'm waiting for the Cellar Door sets to come out as it seemed that was most people's pick as best; but now having listen to the Jack Johnson box (all I can say is; I dig it!), it makes me curious again about the live sets again. I agree, they are all worth hearing. I would put the March '70 Fillmore release with Shorter (It's About that Time) and the Dec '70 Cellar Door recording (Live Evil) at the top of the list. And yes, the Lost Quintet stuff was incredible. (Listening to a March '69 gig right now.) Guy Quote
.:.impossible Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 What is this lost quintet stuff?! Quote
John B Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 What is this lost quintet stuff?! this line-up: this being the last show they performed before Shorter left the group. Quote
jazzbo Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 A collection of Lost Quintet material was recently circulated: http://www.miles-trees.org/l5/index.cfm?fu...or_av&artID=968 Quote
White Lightning Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 What is this lost quintet stuff?! this line-up: this being the last show they performed before Shorter left the group. Omit Airto to make it a quintet. The lost quintet was a great-great quintet that Miles took on the road after Bitches Brew sessions. It had Wayne Shorter (ts,ss), Chick Corea (Keyboards), Dave Holland(B), Jack DeJohnette (d). The lost quintet giged in 1969 and early 70. Unfortunately it was never recorded in the studios this "the lost quintet". Fortunately, many bootlegs from the combo are available. Quote
Guy Berger Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 What is this lost quintet stuff?! The lineup of Davis/Shorter/Corea/Holland/DeJohnette, represented by a bunch of live recordings in 1969. The cool thing about this group is that it put together intense inside/outside playing with electric piano and some rock ideas. The setlists included a mix of older tunes ("No Blues", "Milestones", "Round Midnight"), '60s Quintet material ("Masqualero", "Footprints") and late 60s pieces ("It's About That Time", "Sanctuary", "Miles Runs the Voodoo Down"). Not sure if it's still active, but www.darkfunk.com had a bunch of these shows on realaudio. The March 70 recording is a different from the '69 gigs. The rock/funk-to-free jazz ratio is higher, and the group sounds different (Holland plays some e-bass, Corea adds all those crazy effects to his instrument, and Airto provides percussion). Guy Quote
John B Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 A collection of Lost Quintet material was recently circulated: http://www.miles-trees.org/l5/index.cfm?fu...or_av&artID=968 wow! I had never heard of this before. The next tree (1980's) doesn't interest me quite so much, but the "lost quintet" material sounds fascinating. Does anyone here have all of this material and would be willing to start an Organissimo "tree?" 12 discs is a lot to ask for but those setlists will have a LOT of people drooling! Quote
WD45 Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Does anyone here have all of this material and would be willing to start an Organissimo "tree?" This is a great idea. We could also get in on the Ayler tree material as well. Where does one start? Quote
John B Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Does anyone here have all of this material and would be willing to start an Organissimo "tree?" This is a great idea. We could also get in on the Ayler tree material as well. Where does one start? 1. find someone who already has these discs who is willing to burn at least one copy of each 2. find someone to administer the tree and burn copies for 2 or 3 people, each of whom will burn copies for 2 or 3 people That is really it. My burner is on the fritz, so I am SOL for right now, otherwise I would volunteer to head this up. I should have a working burner in a few weeks, so, if someone was able to provide the initial copies of the Miles discs (or the Ayler discs, or any other interesting live trees we could come up with) I would be happy to organize the whole deal and start distribution once I was back up and running again. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Discs #10 and #11 (from that 12-disc set - the 'tree' thing) are the November 5, 1969 concert, described at 'Miles Ahead' thusly... Corea begins the first concert on malfunctioning el-p but he gives up on it; after a short interval, he plays acoustic piano for the remainder of the concert. Davis's choice of tunes ("Paraphernalia," "Nefertiti," and "Masqualero") was probably influenced by the lack of an electric piano. I've known about the existence of this date for some time, but I have never heard it myself. It almost goes without saying that... I would LOVE to hear the "lost quintet" with Chick on ACOUSTIC piano!!! Quote
White Lightning Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Discs #10 and #11 (from that 12-disc set - the 'tree' thing) are the November 5, 1969 concert, described at 'Miles Ahead' thusly... Corea begins the first concert on malfunctioning el-p but he gives up on it; after a short interval, he plays acoustic piano for the remainder of the concert. Davis's choice of tunes ("Paraphernalia," "Nefertiti," and "Masqualero") was probably influenced by the lack of an electric piano. I've known about the existence of this date for some time, but I have never heard it myself. It almost goes without saying that... I would LOVE to hear the "lost quintet" with Chick on ACOUSTIC piano!!! RT, I have these 12 CDs (plus another one that was not included in the "tree"). If you're interested I can burn you some copies. PM me. Quote
dave9199 Posted October 17, 2003 Author Report Posted October 17, 2003 Oh man, what did I start? Does having all or most of these live albums get repetitious? (spell check on that last word, please) Quote
jazzhound Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 I would venture to say the unique feel this band created was very much due to Dave Holland's playing. Very different phrasing! Quote
JSngry Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Yeah, Holland and Chick locked in tight. Can't overlook DeJohnette's madcap antics either. The guy was to Tony what Tony was to Philly Joe - a radical but logical extension, and a total maniac (in a TOTALLY positive sense). The whole band was like that - a radical but logical extension of the Second Quintet, one that went on ahaed and made blatant (the rock/free jazz/electric mix) waht their predecessor was already but only just hinting at. And they all played like maniacs (in a TOTALLY positive sense). Wayne just went on ahead and cut the tether. No wonder he went on to minimalize. It was the only remaining option. Pretty mind-bogglin' stuff. It needs to be made generally available. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) Amen to the comments about DeJohnette. And for some more "Lost Quintet" music (sorta), by all means check this out... Chick Corea- The Complete "IS" Sessions" (Connoisseur Series) Chick Corea: Piano, Electric Piano, Woody Shaw: Trumpet, Hubert Laws: Flute & Piccolo, Bennie Maupin: Tenor Saxophone, Dave Holland: Bass, Jack DeJohnette: Drums, Horace Arnold: Drums, Percussion. Forget that Woody's on it (he's really just in a supporting role). The band here is really just Maupin, Corea, Holland, and DeJohnette. And they play music (at least all of Disc #1 of this set) that is as close as anything I've ever heard from the 'Lost Quintet'. In fact, they play a tune - "This" - that the 'Lost Quintet' played in concert frequently, cuz I've heard it on a bootleg or two. Bennie Maupin also plays his ass off on this release, closer to Wayne than anyone I think I've ever heard. Not exactly a 'Wayne' copycat, but totally similar to that place Wayne got to with the 'Lost Quintet'. Also, "The Complete 'IS' Sessions" has a remarkably loose feeling to them, that really sounds like a 'live' recording that just happened to be in the studio. I think these sessions were recorded in a loft over an entire 3-day weekend. ( Or as Aric might say, THEY ARE TOTALLY BADASS - AND YOU'VE GOT TO HEAR THEM TO FUCKIN BELIEVE IT-- HELL YEAH!!!!!! ) Disclaimer: All this applies to Disc #1 of the two-disc set. Disc #2 is pretty 'out' - and while good in it's own way, it's not quite the same thing. BN rightfully collected the more 'structured' tunes on disc 1, and the 'free' stuff on disc 2. Edited October 18, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote
Gary Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 Does anyone here have all of this material and would be willing to start an Organissimo "tree?" This is a great idea. We could also get in on the Ayler tree material as well. Where does one start? 1. find someone who already has these discs who is willing to burn at least one copy of each 2. find someone to administer the tree and burn copies for 2 or 3 people, each of whom will burn copies for 2 or 3 people That is really it. My burner is on the fritz, so I am SOL for right now, otherwise I would volunteer to head this up. I should have a working burner in a few weeks, so, if someone was able to provide the initial copies of the Miles discs (or the Ayler discs, or any other interesting live trees we could come up with) I would be happy to organize the whole deal and start distribution once I was back up and running again. If a UK/Europe burner was needed _ I'd do it . I'd love to hear those Miles & Ayler trees. Quote
Gary Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 And for some more "Lost Quintet" music (sorta), by all means check this out... Chick Corea- The Complete "IS" Sessions" (Connoisseur Series) Chick Corea: Piano, Electric Piano, Woody Shaw: Trumpet, Hubert Laws: Flute & Piccolo, Bennie Maupin: Tenor Saxophone, Dave Holland: Bass, Jack DeJohnette: Drums, Horace Arnold: Drums, Percussion. I was just listening to the IS sessions yesterday - Disc 1 is QUALITY Quote
Guest youmustbe Posted October 17, 2003 Report Posted October 17, 2003 I remember one night in 69 at the Village Gate, in the middle of the set, Chick and Jack changed places, Chick drumming and Jack played the electric piano. The reason this music cannot be recaptured is simple...No Miles! I have all the Cellar Door. They're good, but the night with John is terrific, most of it is on Live Evil. Miles knew what he was doing by adding guitar. Quote
PHILLYQ Posted October 18, 2003 Report Posted October 18, 2003 If anyone is starting a Miles tree(or an Ayler one,also) for those discs, please include me- I'd be happy to make discs and mail to two or three people. COUNT ME IN IF IT HAPPENS! Quote
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