Making a Case for the ‘Cult’ of Jazz

[jon abbey]

But if that gets to you, besides the significant work with the Mothers of Invention, like We're Just in it for the Money, listen to Hot Rats, Waka/Jawaka, the Grand Wazoo, or Uncle Meat and then tell me his music stank.

I'll defer to Ian Penman, I agree with every word:

http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/214/

first sentence:

"For the pop life of me, I cannot see why anyone past the age of 17 would want to listen to Frank Zappa again, never mind revere him as a deep and important artist, never mind worship at the tottering edifice of his recollected, remastered and repackaged works."

[AllenLowe]

you had to have seen Zappa in person to realize what a brilliant musician he was, and what a brilliant band he had, especially the 1968 version that I saw at Columbia University -

as for

"there are always new directions to go in music, but at this point, those are outside of jazz's boundaries. "

bespoken by someone who has missed a lot of music -

Edited July 8, 2008 by AllenLowe

[blajay]

you had to have seen Zappa in person to realize what a brilliant musician he was, and what a brilliant band he had

The Baby Snakes DVD is testament to that too. Also, I saw his son Dweizel play his father's music pretty well a couple years ago with a lot of his old bandmates--Terry Bozio, Napoleon Murphy Brock, etc. Dweizel was accurate, though not nearly as charismatic as Frank.

[7/4]

Zappa was at least a gateway drug for a lot of people. I still go back and listen occasionally.

.

[AllenLowe]

listen to the ensemble pieces on The Yellow Shark CD - here was a guy who gave life to new music in a way that one thousand academics could not, because he felt it, lived it, and HAD to compose, as opposed to doing it for tenure and Faculty Night.

Edited July 8, 2008 by AllenLowe

[7/4]

The Yellow Shark =

I tend to like the computer and chamber music Zappa these days...

.

[blajay]

The Yellow Shark =

I tend to like the computer and chamber music Zappa these days...

.

Yes. And brave--he could barely stand for that recording, so close to death. I liken writers like Penman knocking his classical pursuits and Varese-inspired work to fools knocking Bird for Stravinsky inspired more "serious" ideas. Just because Zappa had profane lyrics about poop and sex doesn't mean there isn't something more to his music, and just because Parker got head from random white women while high and sucking on chicken bones in the back of a taxi obviously doesn't mean that there isn't something more to his music.

Edited July 8, 2008 by zanonesdelpueblo

[AllenLowe]

interesting thing in person was what a great rock and roller he was, how seamlessly the band could move around, stylistically - for all his sarcasm I always believed Zappa had a deep love for classic rock and roll - and the band would alternate these incredibly complex, Varese-type lines with abrupt crudity, mix in Wooly Bully (with Sam the Sham sitting in), go into a faux country tune, and then hit a long piece like King Kong - quite amazing, really

[A Lark Ascending]

I'd say the general culture is not so much hostile to jazz as indifferent.

Quite. As it is indifferent to thousands of other things. I don't see why it should be otherwise.

Metheny is falling into the time honoured trap of the middle-aged of believing that only he can see what is of value, that the world as a whole has lost the plot. Last-Roman-as-the barbarians-swarm-across-the-Rhine Syndrome.

At a meeting over the weekend I was reminded of this thread (and many others on bulletin boards) whilst reading the comments of one Alvarus, a ninth-century cleric in Córdoba, who grumbled about the way that young Christian men could barely write decent Latin, yet were besotted by Arabic poetry. The era he was living in is now regarded as one of the jewels of medieval culture.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Bev Stapleton

[seeline]

I'd say the general culture is not so much hostile to jazz as indifferent.

Quite. As it is indifferent to thousands of other things. I don't see why it should be otherwise.

Metheny is falling into the time honoured trap of the middle-aged of believing that only he can see what is of value, that the world as a whole has lost the plot. Last-Roman-as-the barbarians-swarm-across-the-Rhine Syndrome.

At a meeting over the weekend I was reminded of this thread (and many others on bulletin boards) whilst reading the comments of one Alvarus, a ninth-century cleric in Córdoba, who grumbled about the way that young Christian men could barely write decent Latin, yet were besotted by Arabic poetry. The era he was living in is now regarded as one of the jewels of medieval culture.

- the last 'graph in particular!

But of course, you should take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I'm supposedly "pretending to be a musician." (Though I am serious about taking what I say under advisement, 'cause I'm not the final authority on anything. )

Edited July 9, 2008 by seeline

[Hot Ptah]

I'd say the general culture is not so much hostile to jazz as indifferent.

Quite. As it is indifferent to thousands of other things. I don't see why it should be otherwise.

Metheny is falling into the time honoured trap of the middle-aged of believing that only he can see what is of value, that the world as a whole has lost the plot. Last-Roman-as-the barbarians-swarm-across-the-Rhine Syndrome.

At a meeting over the weekend I was reminded of this thread (and many others on bulletin boards) whilst reading the comments of one Alvarus, a ninth-century cleric in Córdoba, who grumbled about the way that young Christian men could barely write decent Latin, yet were besotted by Arabic poetry. The era he was living in is now regarded as one of the jewels of medieval culture.

Excellent points, Bev.

I think it should be kept in mind that Metheny was talking to young music students, giving them some advice. I don't know that his remarks were intended as a published essay on the state of jazz.

[seeline]

Hot Ptah - Like you, I doubt that he was claiming to make any definitive statements, but... I think I said something back on page 1 about the context, in that I can see how he wanted to appeal to the kids by inviting them into an ultra "in crowd." (so in that it's out.) I'm still not sure that's the best way to approach HS music ed, but then, I'm not in there toiling away - and can appreciate what you said earlier about wanting the kids to wake up!

Edited July 8, 2008 by seeline

[jon abbey]

"there are always new directions to go in music, but at this point, those are outside of jazz's boundaries. "

bespoken by someone who has missed a lot of music -

everyone misses a lot of music, too much for anyone to hear in a lifetime.

[Chuck Nessa]

everyone misses a lot of music, too much for anyone to hear in a lifetime.

It's the choices that reward or not.

[ghost of miles]

The culture certainly is hostile and not indifferent to jazz singers who mess around with "The Star-Spangled Banner".

[clifford_thornton]

Well, I'd rather listen to that than Pat Metheney.

[Hot Ptah]

Have the people bashing Metheny heard him live with his current trio? He is playing uncompromising jazz today. The album, Day Trip, is not really representative of the live experience, as for some reason two of the five songs are dirges, and there were a lot more uptempo blowing vehicles when I saw them live.

[Larry Kart]

I wish this thread was "ovuh."

[Larry Kart]

On the other hand, here is the case being made when it could be made (those jitterbugs!):

[Larry Kart]

Especially couple no. 3.

[AllenLowe]

"and just because Parker got head from random white women while high and sucking on chicken bones in the back of a taxi"

now, this is why I became a jazz musician in the first place - it was a choice between a pension plan and a taxi ride -

[Jazzmoose]

"and just because Parker got head from random white women while high and sucking on chicken bones in the back of a taxi"

now, this is why I became a jazz musician in the first place - it was a choice between a pension plan and a taxi ride -

I hear you. "Just because"? Hell, I wish I'd kept playing my trombone now...

[Jazzmoose]

Though I understand 'bone players have to make do with a bus and a copy of Hustler...

[AllenLowe]

hmmmm....can I fight the urge to make a "bone" joke?

[Larry Kart]

Though I understand 'bone players have to make do with a bus and a copy of Hustler...

And they left the Hustler at the hotel.