Kenny Burrell

[JohnS]

I guess I'll have to dig my old vinyl out.

I've always enjoyed Burrell's Blue Notes (maybe for reasons other than Burrell) but it's been mostly downhill since then.

[ejp626]

but, where can i get a cd-copy of "tender gender"? it's out of print ... or is it not? has there ever been a cd reissue of "tender gender"?

"Tender Gender" along with one other album was released on CD as "Soulero", which I think is also OOP, but sometimes shows up on eBay.

Just did a quick scan, and Soulero is now available as MP3 download for $10 on Amazon (and possibly iTunes but I didn't check). Granted we don't all like MP3s, but in these kind of cases with OOP material, I usually go that direction.

[Free For All]

I don't need anyone to validate my opinion of who/what is good, but I also don't need to convince you.......

I think the different tastes in music are what make this place interesting. Who cares that everyone doesn't like the same players?

[clifford_thornton]

Clifftone Solo Oboe Recital: Great cover yes, and half that band is pretty hot, I agree; too bad the piano player and guitarist are such saps. Very "tastey" though! Wake me when its syrup season? We can road trip to Quebec if we're both still single then.

Clifftone Duos (with Richard Teitelbaum): Did George Russell ever embarrass you? I don't mean directly but rather, did you ever cringe, slightly, at George's ambition, his philosophies and his rhetoric? Let me answer that question for you, and you can do the same for me elsewhere, OK? The answer is YES. That is why George Russell was and is a Great Artist.

Clifftone Trios (with Kenny Wheeler and-- wow-- here is, Osie Johnson!): I'll grant Gil Evans could be a little embarassing too and, alas, not usually for reasons I'm as sympathetic with as George but still, he was trying, and hired Billy Harper.

Clifftone Quartet (Plays The Art of the Fugue): Kenny Burrell doesn't embarrass nor offend, except those who've waited 50+ years for this guy to play-- oh, oh, here's a cross-genre example-- even 16 bars like Sam Fuller. Is that too much to ask or am I resigned to taking a piss EVERY time Kenny starts sliding around another tedious, "tastey" solo?

The New Clifftone 5 (Live At Slug's): George Russell had better hair than Buddy Miles and Rob Tyner combined; Kenny Burrell on his best day never came close.

Yes, I have cringed more than once at Lydian rhetoric and just set it aside while the band BURNED.

FWIW, the mere idea of jazz guitar vis-a-vis Wes and KB made me cringe for years until I heard Grant Green and (early) John McLaughlin. My dad was/is a jazz guitar and piano trio (how many CDs DOES Hank Jones have out, anyway?) nut, so there you go. But the five or six KB records I own haven't, for whatever reason, been sold off. Maybe it's the sidemen, dunno. But they're still here.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

...I do need that dose of Jimmy Smith or Stanley Turrentine, both of whom I mostly adore. Never in my 64 years have I ever, for even a second thought, goddamn! I get to play Jimmy or Stanley AND get Kenny Burrell too.

OK - I can see this. But what happens if you take Kenny Burrell out of "Midnight special"/"Back at the Chicken Shack"?

You get "Prayer meetin'".

MG

[Shawn]

For those who actually dig Kenny...

[Jim Alfredson]

When all is said and done, he did give us Chitlins Con Carne.

[Joe G]

When all is said and done, he did give us Chitlins Con Carne.

BadaBING!

[paul secor]

I'm not in Chauncey's camp - I like some of Burrell's playing.

But - I was listening to Bluesy Burrell - the reissue LP I have spells it Bluesey Burrell - and enjoying some of Kenny Burrell's mellow, laid back - dare I say pretty - playing. Then, every time Coleman Hawkins stepped up to the mic, I was reminded that there was something outside/beyond what I'd been hearing. And hey, I know that there's only one Hawk, and that only a few have played at that level, but I had the sense that Kenny Burrell wasn't even trying to take it to the place where Hawk was at. Just an observation.

If nothing else, this thread will make me - and probably others - listen to some of Kenny Burrell's recordings more closely.

And that's not a bad thing.

[Shawn]

In the case of Bluesy Burrell, I think Kenny wanted the focus on Hawk, the arrangements seem to be geared in that direction.

[JSngry]

Also, and this is a generalization which I might need to retract upon further reflection (or not), I think there was a tendency amongst "boppish" players to "pull back" a little, if only subconsciously, when playing with "older" style players. I think it has to do with the tendency of the older players - and Hawk in particular - to have a more "straight" 4/4 feel to their basic rhythmic impetus. The younger guys's rhythm was more naturally...subdivided, and I do think that some "accommodation" was necessary. Gladly taken, usually, but necessary nevertheless.

[John L]

One of the reasons why I really enjoy Kenny Burrell is that (IMO) he was one of the bluesiest of all jazz guitarists, right along with Wes and some others who came later under their influences. As Jim S articulated so well, Burrell's urbane approach didn't prevent him from putting across a lot of blue grit. I think of Burrell as a more uptown version of the T-Bone Walker-Pee Wee Crayton-Johnny Guitar Watson line. And that is highly satisfying for me.

Edited July 1, 2008 by John L

[John L]

...I do need that dose of Jimmy Smith or Stanley Turrentine, both of whom I mostly adore. Never in my 64 years have I ever, for even a second thought, goddamn! I get to play Jimmy or Stanley AND get Kenny Burrell too.

OK - I can see this. But what happens if you take Kenny Burrell out of "Midnight special"/"Back at the Chicken Shack"?

You get "Prayer meetin'".

MG

Exactly!

[BruceH]

I find myself in Jim Sangrey's camp. As usual.

[Free For All]

I find myself in Jim Sangrey's camp. As usual.

I like Sangrey's camp. He serves s'mores and always has plenty of TP.

[AllenLowe]

ummmm......smores....................

[paul secor]

Also, and this is a generalization which I might need to retract upon further reflection (or not), I think there was a tendency amongst "boppish" players to "pull back" a little, if only subconsciously, when playing with "older" style players. I think it has to do with the tendency of the older players - and Hawk in particular - to have a more "straight" 4/4 feel to their basic rhythmic impetus. The younger guys's rhythm was more naturally...subdivided, and I do think that some "accommodation" was necessary. Gladly taken, usually, but necessary nevertheless.

I was talking more about emotional intensity rather than style. Listening, I just didn't hear KB trying to raise his playing to the intensity of Hawk's playing.

I don't want to get into a debate on this one. I think that people have more or less mapped out their positions by now. I find myself somewhere between Chuck's camp and yours. I realize that there are other points of view, but I'm just using you two as points of reference for myself. The fact that Kenny Burrell seems to be most interested in making his playing sound "right" much of the time, is something that creates a distance in my experiencing of his playing.

[WD45]

I am rather fond of this date:

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

If nothing else, this thread will make me - and probably others - listen to some of Kenny Burrell's recordings more closely.

And that's not a bad thing.

I agree. Although we're all pissing all over him, Chauncey does have a point (though overdone) and I too will listen a bit more intently (until I get bored with it )

MG

[Dan Gould]

See I don't actually agree with that. I've listened to KB pretty intently in the past. I'm quite sure that when Jim refers to the grit under the urbanity, he does after some pretty close listening. Saying that we should listen more critically to KB because Chauncey/Clem/Brian craps all over him is to say that we haven't listened that way in the past, or that there is a chance that if we listen closely, we'll hear what Kenny's detractors hear.

I'm quite happy listening to KB the way I have in the past - with a smile on my face. I don't have any need to listen closer to see if I really ought to reconsider my opinion of him. There's little enough pleasure in my life to go looking for a reason to eliminate a small portion of it.

[JohnS]

Just played Soull Call. A very pleasant way to pass half an hour. It's professional, easy listening and who could really object to Burrell's fluent bluesy playing here? But do I want to play it again in a hurry? No, not really.

[Big Beat Steve]

Saying that we should listen more critically to KB because Chauncey/Clem/Brian craps all over him is to say that we haven't listened that way in the past, or that there is a chance that if we listen closely, we'll hear what Kenny's detractors hear.

See, that's what differences in taste are all about.

I consider myself a bit of a jazz guitar nut, but talking about 50s/60s jazz guitarists, I never felt much urge to revisit the (pre-60s) Kenny Burrell leader LP's that I have. I can't really put my finger on it but reading what Chauncey had to say here somehow struck me just a wee bit as if the gist of what (s)he said might be the reason why his records somehow (literally) did not strike a chord with me anywhere near the way Tal Farlow (THE MAN!!), Barney Kessel, Jimmy Raney, Billy Bauer, early Wes Montgomery (and even Hank Garland, Jimmy Wyble, Joe Puma and obscurity Dempsey Wright - thank you, Fresh Sound) do. And Chuck Wayne too!

So this thread has made me curious enough to pull out KB's records again and of course I will listen to them under the impact of this debate. But is that a bad thing? I reserve the right of having an opinion of my own anyway - one way or another!

Edited July 1, 2008 by Big Beat Steve

[7/4]

Saying that we should listen more critically to KB because Chauncey/Clem/Brian craps all over him is to say that we haven't listened that way in the past, or that there is a chance that if we listen closely, we'll hear what Kenny's detractors hear.

See, that's what differences in taste are all about.

I consider myself a bit of a jazz guitar nut, but talking about 50s/60s jazz guitarists, I never felt much urge to revisit the (pre-60s) Kenny Burrell leader LP's that I have. I can't really put my finger on it but reading what Chauncey had to say here somehow struck me just a wee bit as if the gist of what (s)he said might be the reason why his records somehow (literally) did not strike a chord with me anywhere near the way Tal Farlow (THE MAN!!), Barney Kessel, Jimmy Raney, Billy Bauer, early Wes Montgomery (and even Hank Garland, Jimmy Wyble, Joe Puma and obscurity Dempsey Wright - thank you, Fresh Sound) do.

So this thread has made me curious enough to pull out KB's records again and of course I will listen to them under impact of this debate. But is that a bad thing? I reserve the right of having an opinion of my own anyway - one way or another!

I know Kenny Burrell is no Jim Rainey, I'm OK with Kenny Burrell being Kenny Burrell.

Apples and Oranges folks...of course, I'd really rather listen to Jim Rainey.

[Fer Urbina]

One of the reasons why I really enjoy Kenny Burrell is that (IMO) he was one of the bluesiest of all jazz guitarists, right along with Wes and some others who came later under their influences. As Jim S articulated so well, Burrell's urbane approach didn't prevent him from putting across a lot of blue grit. I think of Burrell as a more uptown version of the T-Bone Walker-Pee Wee Crayton-Johnny Guitar Watson line. And that is highly satisfying for me.

Regarding this, I love how Burrell plays *very* bluesy without bending the strings (some players overdo that). Personally, I agree that he's not the most imaginative player, but regarding his tone, I wouldn't want to change it if I were him.

One thing I wasn't aware of is the amount of session work he did in the fifties. Not in the Hank Jones/Milt Hinton/Barry Galbraith league, but much more than I had expected.

F

Edited July 1, 2008 by Fer Urbina

[Peter Friedman]

An interesting discussion though a bit "over the top" at times. I don't understand this need some people have to display such hostility and negative comments toward a player who is not one of their favorites. One can legitimately point out the things about a musicians playing they do not like, but the nasty ad hominum comments don't seem necessary.

Personally, I enjoy the various styles and approaches of musicians who play with differing levels of urbanity, bluesiness, and intensity. I continue to believe that one of the richest aspects of jazz is it's diversity.

Chuck put Kenny Burrell in the same category as Tommy Flanagan and Hank Jones. In my opinion that is fantastic company to be in. There is a subtlety, gracefulness and swing along with melodic and harmonic richness in the playing of those three. And they can all play the blues in their own personal manner.

While Kenny is not my favorite jazz guitar player, he is a damn good one in my view. He has made a number of very good albums as a leader and as a sideman. I tend to agree with Jim that his best recordings are from the 50's and 60's.