George Duke's MPS Fusion sessions

[mikeweil]

I grabbed this as I had only three of the six LPs included here, and I like it much more than I thought. Actually it brought back memories of how often I spinned these back in the day, and in retrospect I find George Duke's keyboard artisrtry and his take on the merging of jazz and rock/pop/soul as convincing and fresh as Hancock's or Zawinul's. He was a member of Cannonball's band when he started this series and went on to Zappa, and both influences clearly show.

Has anybody here got this? Were these available in the USA back then, and is the box now? I'm curious about your opinions ..... I have the impression Duke's albums are not as well known as those of his fusion keyboard colleagues.

LPs included:

Solus & The Inner Source

Faces in Reflection

Feel

The Aura Will Prevail

I love the blues, she heard my cry

Liberated Fantasies

[Teasing the Korean]

Don't forget the brilliant Third Wave album on MPS featuring George Duke.

[BFrank]

Faces in Reflection

Feel

The Aura Will Prevail

I love the blues, she heard my cry

Liberated Fantasies

I have all of these on vinyl. I really enjoyed them when they came out. As he was with FZ at the time, there are a handful of cameo appearances, as well (under the name, "Obdewl'l X"). Never seen any of them on CD.

While some of the tunes sound a little dated now, the music holds up better than a lot of other fusion of its day (as Helen pointed out).

[Teasing the Korean]

Mike, are you hip to that Third Wave album?

[JSngry]

Some MPS albums were readily available in the US for at least the first half - 3/4 of the 70s. Distribution was originally by BASF, and then by...I forget who.

I remember at least so me of these albums as having a seemingly Stevie Wonder influence. Would this be accurate?

And how much Zappa influence is there? The less the better for me, not that IP don't dig Zappa, just that for my taste he's...best in his own realm.

What I'd really like to hear is that these albums have a rich harmonic palate and are rife with colorful keyboard textures. Then they might have me for a buy.

[Hot Ptah]

While we are bringing up positive George Duke recordings, he played some really fine solos on Gerald Wilson's "Eternal Equinox", recorded in 1969. These are found at the end of the last CD in the Mosaic Gerald Wilson box.

[BFrank]

Some MPS albums were readily available in the US for at least the first half - 3/4 of the 70s. Distribution was originally by BASF, and then by...I forget who.

I remember at least so me of these albums as having a seemingly Stevie Wonder influence. Would this be accurate?

And how much Zappa influence is there? The less the better for me, not that IP don't dig Zappa, just that for my taste he's...best in his own realm.

What I'd really like to hear is that these albums have a rich harmonic palate and are rife with colorful keyboard textures. Then they might have me for a buy.

I would say definitely a Zappa influence on most of these - the least being "Faces in Reflection", a relatively straight ahead album. "The Aura Will Prevail" has 2 FZ tunes: "Echidna's Arf" and "Uncle Remus". They are all definitely George Duke albums, though.

[mikeweil]

Mike, are you hip to that Third Wave album?

No - what is it?

[king ubu]

Mike, I got the box too and like what I heard so far (a bit more than half of it). Quite fun stuff!

[mikeweil]

While we are bringing up positive George Duke recordings, he played some really fine solos on Gerald Wilson's "Eternal Equinox", recorded in 1969. These are found at the end of the last CD in the Mosaic Gerald Wilson box.

Duke states in his personal notes that the Fantasy Studios were kind of a meeting place for many musicians and so they turned out playing on a lot of each other's albums - Duke was on Jean-Luc Ponty's for Pacific Jazz and two of Joe Henderson's for Milestone, some Flora Purim, Cal Tjader's Amazonas that Airto produced - sometimes using his Dawili Gonga pseudonym.

[mikeweil]

I remember at least so me of these albums as having a seemingly Stevie Wonder influence. Would this be accurate?

On a superficial level, yes - some of the vocal tunes. But Duke's voice is quite different. He was forced to start singing while with Zappa, and found out he was best using hismfalsetto register, which sounds nice - his singing is definitely a lot better than Hancock's! The common denominator with Stevie is the positive vibe the tunes radiate, I'd say.

And how much Zappa influence is there? The less the better for me, not that IP don't dig Zappa, just that for my taste he's...best in his own realm.

Well, some of the rhythms are inspired by Zappa, some of the fun tracks are, but in my ears only about 20% jump out as strongly Zappaesque.

What I'd really like to hear is that these albums have a rich harmonic palate and are rife with colorful keyboard textures. Then they might have me for a buy.

Duke admitted that he was learning much of his synth stuff by trial and error - Zappa bought an ARP 2600 which wasn't the easiest model to handle, took it home several times and kept struggling with the manual, so he got himself an ARP Odyssey which was easier to operate. His sound is very personal to my ears and different from those of Hammer, Zawinul, or Hancock - the latter's sound is dated compared to Duke. Since Duke used a Wurlitzer more often than a Fender Rhodes and the Hohner D6 clavinet in a rather unorthodox fashion, it sets him apart. Hancock's rhythm keyboards are much closer to Stevie Wonder's than Duke's.

Some of that stuff sounds incredibly fresh and overall very positive - in the way that many Zappa tunes sound positive - you get the idea? And the groove is basically very loose with a lot of jazz approach, even looser than Weather Report's. In retrospect, Hancock's grooves sound stiff in comparison. And although Duke did overdub a bit, it all sounds very impromptu the way he does it, not as constructed as Hancock's. There even is a long solo track from "Faces in Reflection" done live in the studio that's downright fantastic - I listened to that one in the dark and several times in a row back then.

Edited June 16, 2008 by mikeweil

[Hot Ptah]

I remember at least so me of these albums as having a seemingly Stevie Wonder influence. Would this be accurate?

On a superficial level, yes - some of the vocal tunes. But Duke's voice is quite different. He was forced to start singing while with Zappa, and found out he was best using hismfalsetto register, which sounds nice - his singing is definitely a lot better than Hancock's! The common denominator with Stevie is the positive vibe the tunes radiate, I'd say.

And how much Zappa influence is there? The less the better for me, not that IP don't dig Zappa, just that for my taste he's...best in his own realm.

Well, some of the rhythms are inspired by Zappa, some of the fun tracks are, but in my ears only about 20% jump out as strongly Zappaesque.

What I'd really like to hear is that these albums have a rich harmonic palate and are rife with colorful keyboard textures. Then they might have me for a buy.

Duke admitted that he was learning much of his synth stuff by trial and error - Zappa bought an ARP 2600 which wasn't the easiest model to handle, took it home several times and kept struggling with the manual, so he got himself an ARP Odyssey which was easier to operate. His sound is very personal to my ears and different from those of Hammer, Zawinul, or Hancock - the latter's sound is dated compared to Duke. Since Duke used a Wurlitzer more often than a Fender Rhodes and the Hohner D6 clavinet in a rather unorthodox fashion, it sets him apart. Hancock's rhythm keyboards are much closer to Stevie Wonder's than Duke's.

Some of that stuff sounds incredibly fresh and overall very positive - in the way that many Zappa tunes sound positive - you get the idea? And the groove is basically very loose with a lot of jazz approach, even looser than Weather Report's. In retrospect, Hancock's grooves sound stiff in comparison. And although Duke did overdub a bit, it all sounds very impromptu the way he does it, not as constructed as Hancock's. There even is a long solo track from "Faces in Reflection" done live in the studio that's downright fantastic - I listened to that one in the dark and several times in a row back then.

O.K., now you've convinced me to go buy the box!

[Hot Ptah]

I saw George Duke in concert two nights ago, at an outdoor festival, and he is still a happy guy, a chubby jolly guy who likes to play around with his synths. In fact, that is a really good description of the concert.

[Kari S]

Lol @ a "chubby jolly guy"

The three last LPs were reissued on a cd compilation called "Three Originals"

Regarding the singing vs Hancock, I don't think Hancock has ever been heard singing without the vocoder, where as Duke sings without any "gimmicks". Duke has also written a few really good vocal tunes, I think all can be found on these MPS LP's. "Feel", "Love" and "Love Reborn".

I also wouldn't necessarily call Hancock's (funk?) music as "stiff"...? Even though all of the big electric keyboardists' styles vary from each other (HH, Duke, Corea, Zawinul).

Edited June 16, 2008 by Kari S

[Hot Ptah]

well, once mason got out of it, hancock used some brutal drummers, whereas duke used some truly movin' funky drummers.

i have never liked zawinul's keyboard sounds post i suppose sweetnighter....duke coaxed much more interesting (less cheesy) noises out of his keyboards.

I know what you mean about Zawinul/Duke on keyboard sounds. However, my opinion is that Zawinul used some interesting, and at times even warm, keyboard sounds on the "Black Market" album. I don't think he achieved that again, on record.

[mikeweil]

Don't get me wrong - I love Herbie, and owe more to him for my own rhythmic awareness than to any percussionist, but right now I find the looser approach I hear in Duke's trios more attractive. Each has its own merits.

Yes there is a number of vocal tracks, but he makes them really interesting: one is in 7/4, one is in 3/4 with an anticipated downbeat in a funky shuffle feel etc. - plenty ideas. Where others graded down to rather simplistic standard funk grooves in their vocal numbers Duke stills was unorthodox, and the chord changes are very well chosen. One of those vocal numbers in a slightly slower tempo could be played as an instrumental by the Mahavishnu Orchestra and nobody would notice. This guy has my respect!

[Kari S]

I guess Zawinul's keyboard sounds could sound "cheesy" to some, but in my opinion it added another unique dimension of its own to his unique style of composition, both making a very personal and instantly identifiable sound. That said, I've never been a huge Z fan, on the contrary actually. It's more along the lines of "appreciation".

I think Duke's 1st call drummer during the 1970's and early 1980's was always Ndugu Chancler. I guess what made me jump at the "stiffness" suggestion in Hancock's case was, that I was thinking of Mike Clark whose drumming on for instance "Actual Proof" could be hardly classified as such. After Clark, HH started using more straighforward funk drummers like James Levi from Oakland because his music became less jazz oriented, and more funk, even disco.

Back to GDuke ... I've always enjoyed also the few LP's on Epic Records (I think?) that came after the MPS LP's. Albums such as "Brazilian Love Affair" (1979), or "Reach For It" ... and who can forget the Dukey Stick.

[Hot Ptah]

The Dukey Stick made its appearance toward the end of his set at the Kansas City festival this past weekend.

[BFrank]

i just found some random LP from some drummer i never heard of playing with duke and don menza and some bassist from 75 or so. not bad.

Is that Peter Magadini's "Polyrhythm" album?

If so, that's a great album!

No doubt very hard to find, too.

[Teasing the Korean]

No - what is it?

Sadly out of print. George Duke was the pianist and arranger. A brilliant record:

http://www.amazon.com/Here-Now-Third-Wave/dp/B000030015

[mikeweil]

Ah - I faintly remember that one. Thanks!

[BFrank]

and yes the album is the pete moglidiani or whatever album. hard to find? hmmm..cost like $3.99 in good condition!

[slightly different cover than what I have, but same album]

Killer cut - "Samba de Rollins"!

[Hot Ptah]

mike clark seems like a prime piece of douche meat and i do not care for his drumming either. too busy.

ndugu has it.

james levi did nothing for me.

yes, black market had some good sounds. but to me, zawinul did create his own sound palate of synth noises and they sounded very organic and i can see how it birthed basically that whole world music thing he got into, which he is really good at. but to me, it sounds like a bunch of french, african and brazilian children forced to sing in a pure ethnic voice for an airplane commercial.

and yes the album is the pete moglidiani or whatever album. hard to find? hmmm..cost like $3.99 in good condition!

I am not disagreeing with you--I just don't understand. Where do you hear what sounds like children forced to sing in a pure ethnic voice? Do you mean that this is what all of Zawinul's music sounds like to you, or are you referring to a particular song or album?

[BFrank]

well the album did not stiffen me as much as it did you. i am not sure when i will care to listen again.

but http://cdbaby.com/cd/magadini

it is available on CD. jeez.

Not so hard to find, I guess. Go figure.

Even downloadable as MP3s!

[Hot Ptah]

i am just saying to my ears, the sound palate that zawinul evolved was one of these cheesy noises. but they sound like world music. at first he played same as everyone else but a bit more interesting (maybe wah-ing his fender rhodes first), then maybe he was the first ARPing it and using TONTO but it all sort of became this pseudo-ethnic sound machine, to me. like once he learned about keyboards, he searched for what natives of the amazon jungle would sound like if they were robots and then what aborigines would sound like if they were robots and then he combined it. like he tried to find something organic and life-affirming and universal in these electric keyboard knobs and sounds. and maybe he did find it. but it is a cheesy sound to me. but it is happy and life-affirming and ethnic, so great job by him i guess. i just don't like it.

That's a really interesting take on it.