Big Band Fusion

[Jazzjet]

Some great examples of late 60s/early 70s big band fusion - a much neglected sub genre when even established band leaders started donning kaftans and flowered shirts :

Central Park North - Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Band

Big Swing Face & Mercy Mercy - Buddy Rich Big Band

Electric Bath, Autumn, Shock Treatment, Live At Monterey - Don Ellis Orchestra

Light My Fire - Woody Herman

Any other examples?

[John Tapscott]

Woody Herman - Brand New, The Raven Speaks, Giant Steps (especially Giant Steps - it's an excellent all-round big band recording), The Thundering Herd

Maynard Ferguson - MF Horn 1, 2 & 3 (4 & 5 are more straight-ahead)

Stan Kenton - Plays Chicago

Buddy Rich - Roar of '74, Big Band Machine

This stuff was my entry point into jazz (I was trying to play trombone, so found this music pretty appealing when I was 16-20 years old). My tastes are much broader today and yes, more refined, but this still sounds pretty good (especially the Woody discs) when I'm in the mood for it.

[sidewinder]

The one that comes immediately to mind is Thad Jones/Mel Lewis 'Potpouri'

On Philadelphia International - just for extra fusion authenticity.

[JSngry]

Much better than the aforementioned Light My Fire!

[sidewinder]

and a couple of classics of the genre - Don Ellis 'Live at the Fillmore' and 'Tears of Joy' (both CBS)

[JSngry]

Believe it or not:

I was a freshman at NTSU when all this was going on. Leon Breeden just turned the band over to Lyle Mays, the first and only time he surrendered control, and since the Lab Band program was an "open" experience for all, rehearsals were public affairs. To say that witnessing them was an education would be severe understatement, This stuff was out of everybody's box except its creator's.

[sidewinder]

Even Count Basie got in on the act - with 'Afrique' (Flying Dutchman)

That NTSU band LP looks pretty cool !

Edited June 14, 2008 by sidewinder

[JSngry]

[sidewinder]

Mustn't forget Mike Westbrook's 'Metropolis' and 'Citadel/Room 315'. These are solidly based in jazz but with major Brit rock/fusion undertones circa 1972/73.

[Jazzjet]

Mustn't forget Mike Westbrook's 'Metropolis' and 'Citadel/Room 315'. These are solidly based in jazz but with major Brit rock/fusion undertones circa 1972/73.

And Keith Tippett's Centipede's ' Septober Energy'. This was a truly bonkers project featuring 50 jazz and rock musicians. Must have lost loads of money.

[sidewinder]

Mustn't forget Mike Westbrook's 'Metropolis' and 'Citadel/Room 315'. These are solidly based in jazz but with major Brit rock/fusion undertones circa 1972/73.

And Keith Tippett's Centipede's ' Septober Energy'. This was a truly bonkers project featuring 50 jazz and rock musicians. Must have lost loads of money.

Yes, that's a good one to add. I understand they even flew the Brotherhood of Breath musicians in and out from Germany on a daily basis for the recordings so it must have cost an absolute fortune to make !

[Jazzjet]

And Keith Tippett's Centipede's ' Septober Energy'. This was a truly bonkers project featuring 50 jazz and rock musicians. Must have lost loads of money.

[Michael Weiss]

[Dan Gould]

And here's the personnel listing for Centipede !

Violins:

* Wendy Treacher

* Jihn Trussler

* Roddy Skeping

* Wilf Gibson (lead)

* Carol Slater

* Louise Jopling

* Garth Morton

* Channa Salononson

* Steve Rowlandson

* Mica Gomberti

* Colin Kitching

* Philip Saudek

* Esther Burgi

Cellos:

* Michael Hurwitz

* Timothy Kramer

* Suki Towb

* John Rees-Jones

* Katherine Thulborn

* Catherine Finnis

Trumpets:

* Peter Parkes

* Mick Collins

* Ian Carr (doubling flugelhorn)

* Mongezi Feza (pocket cornet)

* Mark Charig (cornet)

Alto Saxophones:

* Elton Dean (doubling saxello)

* Ian Steel (doubling flute)

* Ian McDonald

* Dudu Pukwana

Tenor Saxophones:

* Larry Stabbins

* Gary Windo

* Brian Smith

* Alan Skidmore

Baritone Saxophones:

* Dave White (doubling clarinet)

* Karl Jenkins (doubling oboe)

* John Williams (bass saxophone, doubling soprano)

Trombones:

* Nick Evans

* Dave Amis

* Dave Perrottet

* Paul Rutherford

Drums:

* John Marshall (and all percussion)

* Tony Fennell

* Robert Wyatt

Vocalists:

* Maggie Nicols

* Julie Tippetts

* Mike Patto

* Zoot Money

* Boz Burrell

Basses:

* Roy Babbington (doubling bass guitar)

* Jill Lyons

* Harry Miller

* Jeff Clyne

* Dave Markee

* Brian Belshaw

Guitar:

* Brian Godding

Piano:

* Keith Tippett (musical director)

Producer:

* Robert Fripp

Looks like it needed more cowbell.

[Free For All]

This one's purdy good.

[BFrank]

These were kind of fusion-y among Woody's 70's Herd.

[JSngry]

Are we talking "fusion", or its immediate predecessor, "jazz-rock"?

How about that Peter Herzenboofendozer guy who did the MPS stuff?

And oh yeah, what about Pat Williams?

[Hot Ptah]

Side One of Escalator Over The Hill.

[A Lark Ascending]

'Septober Energy' is really only fusion-y (in the jazz rock sense) for the first half of side 2 and the centre of side 4. Though the other parts certainly cross into contemporary classical territory.

The fusion-y bits of Westbrook's 'Citadel' also tend to stick out like a sore thumb. Interesting that Westbrook quickly dropped that chugging funky beat thing from his music.

Would the Nucleus albums fit here? Perhaps not a big band at centre but some of those records add other musicians. Much as I admire the musicians playing I've always found the rock there hard to enjoy. Too many gigs in my youth where well-spoken Englishmen in loon pants urged me to 'get down'.

Carla Bley was mentioned earlier - I think this one works:

[Jazzjet]

'Septober Energy' is really only fusion-y (in the jazz rock sense) for the first half of side 2 and the centre of side 4. Though the other parts certainly cross into contemporary classical territory.

The fusion-y bits of Westbrook's 'Citadel' also tend to stick out like a sore thumb. Interesting that Westbrook quickly dropped that chugging funky beat thing from his music.

Would the Nucleus albums fit here? Perhaps not a big band at centre but some of those records add other musicians. Much as I admire the musicians playing I've always found the rock there hard to enjoy. Too many gigs in my youth where well-spoken Englishmen in loon pants urged me to 'get down'.

I remember that period only too well. This was the early 70s when hairy rock musicians mingled freely with jazz musicians to produce music of wildly variable quality. I remember seeing an early Mike Westbrook multi-media piece called Earthrise at the Mermaid theatre in London and sitting just in front of the whole of Manfred Mann. In fact, Manfred Mann's Chapter Three ( first album ) was a pretty successful attempt at fusing jazz and prog rock from this period.

The thing I liked about this period was that almost anything was possible, eg Centipede. Can't imagine the accountants in charge of what's left of the music industry letting this kind of thing getting past the proposal stage.

[A Lark Ascending]

'Septober Energy' is really only fusion-y (in the jazz rock sense) for the first half of side 2 and the centre of side 4. Though the other parts certainly cross into contemporary classical territory.

The fusion-y bits of Westbrook's 'Citadel' also tend to stick out like a sore thumb. Interesting that Westbrook quickly dropped that chugging funky beat thing from his music.

Would the Nucleus albums fit here? Perhaps not a big band at centre but some of those records add other musicians. Much as I admire the musicians playing I've always found the rock there hard to enjoy. Too many gigs in my youth where well-spoken Englishmen in loon pants urged me to 'get down'.

I remember that period only too well. This was the early 70s when hairy rock musicians mingled freely with jazz musicians to produce music of wildly variable quality. I remember seeing an early Mike Westbrook multi-media piece called Earthrise at the Mermaid theatre in London and sitting just in front of the whole of Manfred Mann. In fact, Manfred Mann's Chapter Three ( first album ) was a pretty successful attempt at fusing jazz and prog rock from this period.

The thing I liked about this period was that almost anything was possible, eg Centipede. Can't imagine the accountants in charge of what's left of the music industry letting this kind of thing getting past the proposal stage.

Absolutely - those were the days when people like Tippett could make something like a living on the college circuit. 'Septober Energy' remains a favourite of mine (though I think he pulled it off even more successfully with the almost snuck out 'Frames' a few years later, where the rock elements have vanished).

Where are you in Cornwall, Jazzjet? I lived in Newquay from 1968-72 during my mid teens and have strong links with the county - my dad is from Tregony just outside Truro.

[Jazzjet]

'

Absolutely - those were the days when people like Tippett could make something like a living on the college circuit. 'Septober Energy' remains a favourite of mine (though I think he pulled it off even more successfully with the almost snuck out 'Frames' a few years later, where the rock elements have vanished).

Where are you in Cornwall, Jazzjet? I lived in Newquay from 1968-72 during my mid teens and have strong links with the county - my dad is from Tregony just outside Truro.

Between Truro and St Agnes on the coast,near Porthtowan. Not a decent record shop within a hundred miles!

[sidewinder]

Between Truro and St Agnes on the coast,near Porthtowan. Not a decent record shop within a hundred miles!

That would be the jazz CD shop in Bath, if you are thinking East of Cornwall. Failing that it's the Jazz Record Centre or Downtown Music Gallery NYC if thinking West. I'm not sure if there are any jazz outlets these days in Exeter (there used to be a great LP shop on Gandy St but long gone now I'm afraid).

Too bad that Peter Russell's 'Hot Record Store' in Plymouth is long gone. That was a good place - although a bit 'trad/mainstream' inclined.

[Michael Weiss]

Stretching the definition of "big band" a little here. More like orchestra with rhythm section....

[Jazzjet]

Between Truro and St Agnes on the coast,near Porthtowan. Not a decent record shop within a hundred miles!

That would be the jazz CD shop in Bath, if you are thinking East of Cornwall. Failing that it's the Jazz Record Centre or Downtown Music Gallery NYC if thinking West. I'm not sure if there are any jazz outlets these days in Exeter (there used to be a great LP shop on Gandy St but long gone now I'm afraid).

Too bad that Peter Russell's 'Hot Record Store' in Plymouth is long gone. That was a good place - although a bit 'trad/mainstream' inclined.

I think I'd prefer NYC!