Charlie Rouse

[BillF]

I've always felt that Charlie Rouse captured the sound of Monk's music more than any of Monk's other saxophonists did.

The length of Rouse's tenure with Monk speaks volumes in this respect.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

THE GREATEST INTERPERTRER OF MONK'S MUSIC WAS HANK MOBLEY. AND SOON THE WORLD WILL KNOW

[BillF]

THE GREATEST INTERPERTRER OF MONK'S MUSIC WAS HANK MOBLEY. AND SOON THE WORLD WILL KNOW

Interesting! Any recordings?

[bluemonk]

I liked Rouse with Monk. I mean Monk had many better saxophonists through the years before Rouse: Johnny Griffin, Sonny Rollins, Sahib Shihab, Danny Quebec West, Coltrane, Harold Land, Lucky Thompson, Gigi Gryce, among others. But I think Rouse brought something unique to Monk's band. He brought an understanding to the table. Rouse understood the inner mechanics of the music. He knew the ins and outs. I did like Rollins with Monk. I thought they were a good match, but again, Rouse just could really nail these difficult compositions. Rouse's best playing, in my opinion, was on "Straight, No Chaser," which in opinion was this quartet's best effort.

I definitely would have liked to have heard Phil Woods, Johnny Griffin, Coltrane, Rollins, and Harold Land do more work with Monk, but if I had to pick any of them it would be Rollins.

Edited May 14, 2008 by bluemonk

[bluemonk]

When I listen to Rouse's albums as a leader, e.g. this one:

I tend to think Monk was VERY important to develop his individuality. When I think of Rouse I think of Rouse playing Monk, not the other stuff, because that's him!

This was a good session with Rouse:

[clifford_thornton]

Indeed.

But Rouse vis-a-vis Monk is sort of like Jimmy Lyons with Cecil (albeit the former with a shorter tenure).

[jazzbo]

I liked Rouse with Monk. I mean Monk had many better saxophonists through the years before Rouse: Johnny Griffin, Sonny Rollins, Sahib Shihab, Danny Quebec West, Coltrane, Harold Land, Lucky Thompson, Gigi Gryce, among others. But I think Rouse brought something unique to Monk's band. He brought an understanding to the table. Rouse understood the inner mechanics of the music. He knew the ins and outs. I did like Rollins with Monk. I thought they were a good match, but again, Rouse just could really nail these difficult compositions. Rouse's best playing, in my opinion, was on "Straight, No Chaser," which in opinion was this quartet's best effort.

I definitely would have liked to have heard Phil Woods, Johnny Griffin, Coltrane, Rollins, and Harold Land do more work with Monk, but if I had to pick any of them it would be Rollins.

I'd disagree stronlgy that all (I almost want to say ANY) of these saxophonists are "better" than Chariie Rouse!

[paul secor]

If some of the other saxophonists mentioned had stayed with Monk for a longer time, they might have gotten inside of Monk's music. They didn't remain with Monk - for whatever reasons - and Charlie Rouse did, and Charlie Rouse did get inside Monk's music more than any other saxophonist.

[king ubu]

I liked Rouse with Monk. I mean Monk had many better saxophonists through the years before Rouse: Johnny Griffin, Sonny Rollins, Sahib Shihab, Danny Quebec West, Coltrane, Harold Land, Lucky Thompson, Gigi Gryce, among others. But I think Rouse brought something unique to Monk's band. He brought an understanding to the table. Rouse understood the inner mechanics of the music. He knew the ins and outs. I did like Rollins with Monk. I thought they were a good match, but again, Rouse just could really nail these difficult compositions. Rouse's best playing, in my opinion, was on "Straight, No Chaser," which in opinion was this quartet's best effort.

I definitely would have liked to have heard Phil Woods, Johnny Griffin, Coltrane, Rollins, and Harold Land do more work with Monk, but if I had to pick any of them it would be Rollins.

I'd disagree stronlgy that all (I almost want to say ANY) of these saxophonists are "better" than Chariie Rouse!

Yup, agree strongly with your disagreeing! Danny Quebec West? Well, yes, sure! Up in the league of Coltrane's!

Anyway, what's the point in such comparisons? Sure, I'd love to have more Gryce w/Monk - the Savoy session is marvellous! Also more later Rollins w/Monk would have been great (if the two tunes on Rollins Vol. 2 are a fair indicator - there's Brilliant Corners, too! Ernie Henry!). As for Coltrane and Griffin, possibly they just did what they could with Monk and then left to pursue other things? I mean Coltrane was in his quick-evolving phase then, and Griffin... we have two full discs of great music there, and honestly, I somehow feel they couldn't have done much beyond that... don't get me wrong, I love Monk and Griffin each on their own, and I enjoy "Misterioso" and "Thelonious In Action" very much. Yet still, I never felt like I needed more of that...

[Dan Gould]

Well said, Paul.

[AndrewHill]

Can't imagine anyone else but Rouse on Monk's Dream. I think he put his stamp on that album with some of the solos he lays down, especially on Bye-ya.

[Peter Friedman]

There is a very nice Charlie Rouse CD on Landmark titled "Epistrophy". It was recorded at a Thelonious Monk Birthday Tribute concert in 1988 , only 7 weeks before Rouse died of Lung cancer. Listening to this recording, I am unable to detect any evidence that Rouse was so ill.

Don Cherry plays on 2 tracks, George Cables plays great piano on 6 tracks and Jessica Williams is on 1 track.

Buddy Montgomery plays vibes on 3 tracks, and the rhythm section includes Jeff Chambers on bass, and Ralph Penland on drums.

I find this to be a most interesting and enjoyable recording.

[bluemonk]

I will tell you one thing. I couldn't imagine any other saxophonist on Monk's "Straight, No Chaser" recording. I mean that opening song called "Locomotive," which Monk happened to only record twice in his career, was a great opener and Rouse really nailed those changes and his improvisations were very imaginative.

[bluemonk]

I liked Rouse with Monk. I mean Monk had many better saxophonists through the years before Rouse: Johnny Griffin, Sonny Rollins, Sahib Shihab, Danny Quebec West, Coltrane, Harold Land, Lucky Thompson, Gigi Gryce, among others. But I think Rouse brought something unique to Monk's band. He brought an understanding to the table. Rouse understood the inner mechanics of the music. He knew the ins and outs. I did like Rollins with Monk. I thought they were a good match, but again, Rouse just could really nail these difficult compositions. Rouse's best playing, in my opinion, was on "Straight, No Chaser," which in opinion was this quartet's best effort.

I definitely would have liked to have heard Phil Woods, Johnny Griffin, Coltrane, Rollins, and Harold Land do more work with Monk, but if I had to pick any of them it would be Rollins.

I'd disagree stronlgy that all (I almost want to say ANY) of these saxophonists are "better" than Chariie Rouse!

Yup, agree strongly with your disagreeing! Danny Quebec West? Well, yes, sure! Up in the league of Coltrane's!

Anyway, what's the point in such comparisons? Sure, I'd love to have more Gryce w/Monk - the Savoy session is marvellous! Also more later Rollins w/Monk would have been great (if the two tunes on Rollins Vol. 2 are a fair indicator - there's Brilliant Corners, too! Ernie Henry!). As for Coltrane and Griffin, possibly they just did what they could with Monk and then left to pursue other things? I mean Coltrane was in his quick-evolving phase then, and Griffin... we have two full discs of great music there, and honestly, I somehow feel they couldn't have done much beyond that... don't get me wrong, I love Monk and Griffin each on their own, and I enjoy "Misterioso" and "Thelonious In Action" very much. Yet still, I never felt like I needed more of that...

You have a very good point. I was just saying that if any of these players would have stayed with Monk long enough then they would know Monk's music a lot better than they did.

Edited May 14, 2008 by bluemonk

[bluemonk]

I thought Gigi Gryce would have been good with Monk if he played with him longer. Monk did, however, appear on one of his albums called "Nica's Tempo," which was a fine recording. Monk also appeared with Sonny Rollins on the Blue Note release "Sonny Rollins, Vol. 2."

I find it interesting to hear Monk in supporting role especially on Terry Clark's "In Orbit" and Charlie Parker/Dizzy Gillespie's "Bird & Diz." Both great recordings that feature Monk in a supporting role.

[Chuck Nessa]

as he does on a sensational Miles Davis session for Prestige.

[bluemonk]

as he does on a sensational Miles Davis session for Prestige.

Oh yeah I can't believe I forgot "Bags' Groove." Man, that was a swinging little album.

My question is on the title track why didn't Miles want Monk to comp for him? Does anyone know?

[Chuck Nessa]

Bags Groove is only part of the story. More info online. Concord should reissue a single disc of the complete date with Rudy's reminiscences.

[medjuck]

Bags Groove is only part of the story. More info online. Concord should reissue a single disc of the complete date with Rudy's reminiscences.

And Miles's recorded comments. You can get the whole session on the Complete Miles on Prestige box set but they leave out the famous argument.

[Chuck Nessa]

Bags Groove is only part of the story. More info online. Concord should reissue a single disc of the complete date with Rudy's reminiscences.

And Miles's recorded comments. You can get the whole session on the Complete Miles on Prestige box set but they leave out the famous argument.

Totality included in the Complete Monk Prestige set. And it is a K2.

[bluemonk]

Bags Groove is only part of the story. More info online. Concord should reissue a single disc of the complete date with Rudy's reminiscences.

And Miles's recorded comments. You can get the whole session on the Complete Miles on Prestige box set but they leave out the famous argument.

Do you know what this arugment was about?

[bluemonk]

Bags Groove is only part of the story. More info online. Concord should reissue a single disc of the complete date with Rudy's reminiscences.

And Miles's recorded comments. You can get the whole session on the Complete Miles on Prestige box set but they leave out the famous argument.

Totality included in the Complete Monk Prestige set. And it is a K2.

Chuck, that box set is fantastic. It sounds amazing.

[John L]

as he does on a sensational Miles Davis session for Prestige.

Oh yeah I can't believe I forgot "Bags' Groove." Man, that was a swinging little album.

My question is on the title track why didn't Miles want Monk to comp for him? Does anyone know?

Miles discusses this in the Autobiography. There, he comments that he never liked the way that Monk comped behind soloists. Even aside from that general point, I could understand some soloists who might have trouble keeping concentration in front of the unexpected accents and harmonies in Monk's comping.

That brings us back to the point about Rouse. There are times when I think that Rouse is deliberately providing a backdrop for Monk's comping in his solos. That is part of what I love about the Monk-Rouse combination. Rouse lets Monk be Monk.

[bluemonk]

as he does on a sensational Miles Davis session for Prestige.

Oh yeah I can't believe I forgot "Bags' Groove." Man, that was a swinging little album.

My question is on the title track why didn't Miles want Monk to comp for him? Does anyone know?

Miles discusses this in the Autobiography. There, he comments that he never liked the way that Monk comped behind soloists. Even aside from that general point, I could understand some soloists who might have trouble keeping concentration in front of the unexpected accents and harmonies in Monk's comping.

That brings us back to the point about Rouse. There are times when I think that Rouse is deliberately providing a backdrop for Monk's comping in his solos. That is part of what I love about the Monk-Rouse combination. Rouse lets Monk be Monk.

This is pretty interesting....

If I was horn player, I'd love for Monk to comp for me! He would send me in many different directions.

[six string]

Charlie Rouse is the reason I love the Columbia era so much. Not that I don't like the Bluenote and Prestige sides, but I really like the "band" sound of the Columbia records.

And I love that Epic album Yeah! by Rouse. I picked that up around 1996 or '97 when Classic reissued it and was not disappointed.