The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 Coincidentally, over breakfast this morning I was listening to Johnny Griffin's twofer CD "Bush dance", and re-reading the sleeve notes over my toast and marmalade (only later noticing the slightly greasy fingermarks I'd left). "The JAMFs are coming" is one of the tracks - of course, you all knew that. Zan Stewart's sleeve note gives a little bit of history of the tune, which was frst recorded by the Clarke-Boland Band, with which Johnny was playing in the mid-sixties. It was a coincidence because, first thing in the morning, I'm not clever enough to pick out a CD for breakfast listening that has some connection to what I was listening to the previous evening. What I listened to yesterday evening was Blue Mitchell's "Big 6", recorded in 1958, with Johnny Griffin and Curtis Fuller. And I particularly noticed (probably not for the first time, as I've had the CD for a longish while, but probably for the first time in that specific linguistic connection) that there's a Curtis Fuller tune on that album called "Jamph". How strange for there to be a euphemism of an acronym, which is itself a euphemism. I wonder whose idea that was, Fuller's or Keepnews'. A euphemism of a euphemism only makes sense if the acronym JAMF had become a word in 1958. Well, I don't know, had it? (Zan Stewart had to explain it in the 2004 sleeve notes, but maybe things had changed since 1958.) MG Quote
Shawn Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) Keepnews was probably worried that if they printed the acronym someone would figure it out....or they told him the song title and he mis-understood it and spelled it out the best he could. "Joe's Avenue" anyone? Edited May 22, 2008 by Shawn Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 Shawn said: "Joe's Avenue" anyone? ? Too American for me, I suspect. MG Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 The Magnificent Goldberg said: Shawn said: "Joe's Avenue" anyone? ? Too American for me, I suspect. MG Think keyboard player. Quote
JSngry Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 Louis Jordan recorded an original called "The Jamf" for Mercury in 1957. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 Chuck Nessa said: The Magnificent Goldberg said: Shawn said: "Joe's Avenue" anyone? ? Too American for me, I suspect. MG Think keyboard player. Joe Henderson? MG Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 JSngry said: Louis Jordan recorded an original called "The Jamf" for Mercury in 1957. Only have one LP of his Mercury stuff. An instrumental, I assume MG Quote
sidewinder Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 The Magnificent Goldberg said: Chuck Nessa said: The Magnificent Goldberg said: Shawn said: "Joe's Avenue" anyone? ? Too American for me, I suspect. MG Think keyboard player. Joe Henderson? MG As in Joe "Piano" Henderson? That well known hard bop pianist? Quote
sidewinder Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) Talking of Johnny Griffin, he's due to be at Ray's Jazz in London next Tuesday for a book signing with Mike Henessey for the new bio out from Northway. Too bad it's unlikely I can get to that one . Alternatively you can buy it from Northway direct. They are doing the book ('The Little Giant - The Story Of Johnny Griffin') for £15 inc. P&P to UK mainland addresses I believe, special offer before 15th June (regular price is £19.99). Check out www.northwaybooks.com Edited May 22, 2008 by sidewinder Quote
jazztrain Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 Didn't Wynton Kelly record a tune called "Joe's Avenue" on one of his VeeJay albums? Chuck Nessa said: The Magnificent Goldberg said: Shawn said: "Joe's Avenue" anyone? ? Too American for me, I suspect. MG Think keyboard player. Quote
JSngry Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 The Magnificent Goldberg said: JSngry said: Louis Jordan recorded an original called "The Jamf" for Mercury in 1957. Only have one LP of his Mercury stuff. An instrumental, I assume MG Yes, on his second album, w/Jackie Davis: http://microgroove.jp/mercury/MG20331.shtml Rev-Ola has a single-disc release that includes both Jordan Mercury LPs in toto, if you do that type of thing. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 sidewinder said: The Magnificent Goldberg said: Chuck Nessa said: The Magnificent Goldberg said: Shawn said: "Joe's Avenue" anyone? ? Too American for me, I suspect. MG Think keyboard player. Joe Henderson? MG As in Joe "Piano" Henderson? That well known hard bop pianist? MG Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 All right; keyboard players McCoy Tyner Herbie Hancock Jimmy Smith Les McCann Cal Tjader Lionel Hampton Balla Kalla Cheikh M Smith Am I getting warm? MG Quote
Free For All Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 jazztrain said: Didn't Wynton Kelly record a tune called "Joe's Avenue" on one of his VeeJay albums? Which was actually "Scotch & Water". The composer's name was mentioned and mis-heard as being the title of the tune. .........and just who WAS that composer, MG? Quote
JSngry Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 "Please, no more", said the stranger rather sternly. Quote
jazztrain Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 Aha. Joe Zawinul? Never knew that. To return to the JAMF thread, Junior Mance recorded a tune called "The J.A.M.F." Bobby Jaspar record "Le JAMF." I recall playing a set of JAMF tunes on my show several years ago and having to tip toe around the meaning of the titles. Free For All said: jazztrain said: Didn't Wynton Kelly record a tune called "Joe's Avenue" on one of his VeeJay albums? Which was actually "Scotch & Water". The composer's name was mentioned and mis-heard as being the title of the tune. .........and just who WAS that composer, MG? Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 Free For All said: jazztrain said: Didn't Wynton Kelly record a tune called "Joe's Avenue" on one of his VeeJay albums? Which was actually "Scotch & Water". The composer's name was mentioned and mis-heard as being the title of the tune. .........and just who WAS that composer, MG? Well, according to my cheapo compilation, it was Wynton Kelly. I do feel I'm missing the point - or missing the pint. MG Quote
JSngry Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 I think that one of the points is that if Louis Jordan was using phrase as a title in 1957, then it was probably a "folk saying" that might have been around long before surfacing into the "mainstream" as it did. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 JSngry said: I think that one of the points is that if Louis Jordan was using phrase as a title in 1957, then it was probably a "folk saying" that might have been around long before surfacing into the "mainstream" as it did. Oh yes, I got that. I assume, a black folk saying, though. I can't hear white folk saying that - particularly not in an English accent MG Quote
Shawn Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 (edited) The Magnificent Goldberg said: I do feel I'm missing the point - or missing the pint. MG Scotch & Water was written by Joe Zawinul. When the producer asked for the name of the tune, they told him who the composer was and he thought they said "Joe's Avenue". Edited May 22, 2008 by Shawn Quote
JSngry Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 The Magnificent Goldberg said: JSngry said: I think that one of the points is that if Louis Jordan was using phrase as a title in 1957, then it was probably a "folk saying" that might have been around long before surfacing into the "mainstream" as it did. Oh yes, I got that. I assume, a black folk saying, though. I can't hear white folk saying that - particularly not in an English accent MG Well, yeah, and the phrase "Jive Ass Mother Fucker" was in use long before Griff or anybody of his generation. What I'm referring to is the actual "term" JAMF. Remember how TOBA (Theater Owners Booking Association) came to stand for "Touch On Black Asses"? Looks like somewhat the same thing happened, albeit in reverse, to "Jive Ass Mother Fucker", and I'm willing to speculate that it happened long before 1957! Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Posted May 22, 2008 JSngry said: The Magnificent Goldberg said: JSngry said: I think that one of the points is that if Louis Jordan was using phrase as a title in 1957, then it was probably a "folk saying" that might have been around long before surfacing into the "mainstream" as it did. Oh yes, I got that. I assume, a black folk saying, though. I can't hear white folk saying that - particularly not in an English accent MG Well, yeah, and the phrase "Jive Ass Mother Fucker" was in use long before Griff or anybody of his generation. What I'm referring to is the actual "term" JAMF. Remember how TOBA (Theater Owners Booking Association) came to stand for "Touch On Black Asses"? Looks like somewhat the same thing happened, albeit in reverse, to "Jive Ass Mother Fucker", and I'm willing to speculate that it happened long before 1957! Yes, that's what I was saying in the original post. It made no sense to spell JAMF "Jamph" unless JAMF had become a "word" rather than an acronym. Oh, well, possibly. If Curtis Fuller or Orrin Keepnews knew that Jordan had recorded a tune called JAMF the year before (and surely they would have), the altered spelling of the Fuller tune might simply have been to keep out of the way of the Jordan one. MG Quote
paul secor Posted May 22, 2008 Report Posted May 22, 2008 JSngry said: The Magnificent Goldberg said: JSngry said: I think that one of the points is that if Louis Jordan was using phrase as a title in 1957, then it was probably a "folk saying" that might have been around long before surfacing into the "mainstream" as it did. Oh yes, I got that. I assume, a black folk saying, though. I can't hear white folk saying that - particularly not in an English accent MG Well, yeah, and the phrase "Jive Ass Mother Fucker" was in use long before Griff or anybody of his generation. What I'm referring to is the actual "term" JAMF. Remember how TOBA (Theater Owners Booking Association) came to stand for "Touch On Black Asses"? Looks like somewhat the same thing happened, albeit in reverse, to "Jive Ass Mother Fucker", and I'm willing to speculate that it happened long before 1957! I'd read that TOBA came to stand for "Tough On Black Asses". Perhaps there were two versions. Quote
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