Archie Shepp in concert

[Durium]

ARCHIE SHEPP

Archie Shepp saxes - Tom McClung piano - Wayne Dockery bass - Steve McCraven drums

Archie Shepp visibly enjoys being treated as a star. The way he enters the stage, his demands, like special 1960s microphones, because they reproduce my sound better, his command for applause with a small bow right after his solos (before any one could started the applause) ....... it all belongs to his act....

International Jazz Festival - Middelburg (The Netherlands)

10th of May 2008

Doubleconcert with Bobby Previte

Bobby Previte - Archie Shepp in Middelburg

Keep swinging

Durium

[Christiern]

Frankly, I always thought that Archie's recognition factor exceeded his measure of talent--fame by association and fortuitously timed presence.

[AllenLowe]

well, I think he can play - but whether he has put his talent to good use is an open question - in a way he reminds me of David Murray, who found a certain musical path, turned it into something of a gimmick, and decided to coast for cash -

[jlhoots]

well, I think he can play - but whether he has put his talent to good use is an open question - in a way he reminds me of David Murray, who found a certain musical path, turned it into something of a gimmick, and decided to coast for cash -

What's the "gimmick" & how much cash are we talking about (in both cases)?

Seriously.

[marcello]

well, I think he can play - but whether he has put his talent to good use is an open question - in a way he reminds me of David Murray, who found a certain musical path, turned it into something of a gimmick, and decided to coast for cash -

What's the "gimmick" & how much cash are we talking about (in both cases)?

Seriously.

Allen's right.

Murray is really a limited musician who goes onto histronics as soon as possible. He milks that for all he can, and can only really do his own thing. Like I said, limited

A one trick pony. Sorry David.

His reputation has also suffered among musicians as not one who can not interact with others in a professional manner, to put it mildly, or adept at the craft of music making beyond his own thing.

The only Shepp that I liked was Four for Trane, and I used to own a few back in the day.

Forget Attica Blues.

Saw him live a couple of times at the Vanguard that seemed more of a jam than anything.

I still have a Denon called A Tray of Silver or something like that, that I should get rid of someday.

Edited May 12, 2008 by marcello

[MartyJazz]

Love FOUR FOR TRANE and the later TRAY OF SILVER as well. Got to see Archie quite a bit during the mid '70s-early '80s and he always put on a very swinging set alternating with his occasional "poetic" diatribes (e.g., "Poem for Mama Rose"). I enjoy his earlier, more adventurous "out" stuff (which I never got to see live) as well as the bop repertoire he played some decade and a half later (which I often did get to witness). He's a highly literate, intelligent artist and that facet of his being may be influencing my estimation of his artistry, nevertheless........ Admittedly, nothing much he has done during the past two decades has excited me (chops?), but I do think that overall a lot of good work recorded since the '60s has been underrated, in particular the quartets he led with Siegfried Kessler on piano, the duets with Max Roach, etc.

BTW, my copy of TRAY OF SILVER is on vinyl. Marcello, if you're going to cut loose the CD, PM me.

Edited May 12, 2008 by MartyJazz

[marcello]

Mine is on vinyl too Marty, but given your comments here, I'll give it another listen. It's been a long time.

[paul secor]

Anyone interested in various opinions of and recommendations for Archie Shepp should check this out. http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...c=5923&st=0

[MartyJazz]

Mine is on vinyl too Marty, but given your comments here, I'll give it another listen. It's been a long time.

Absolutely love the track "No Smokin'"!

[AllenLowe]

as for the cash side of it, I'm sure Shepp has been able to command large fees for some time -

Edited May 12, 2008 by AllenLowe

[clifford_thornton]

I enjoyed seeing him with Amina Claudine Myers last year, more than I would've thought at this point in his career.

For all the negativity his later sides tend to receive, some of them - especially those with Kessler (R.I.P.) - are quite fine.

[Guest Bill Barton]

Count me in the generally positive camp for both Shepp and Murray.

I've seen Murray live more times than anyone else, although none of these performances are recent. If I had to pick a "Top Ten" live shows list, his duo with Randy Weston in Montreal a few years back would be way up there on the list. As a listener, I have always found him to be thoroughly enjoyable in concert. He may be a "one trick pony" but I like his one trick. Seriously, I don't find him to be one dimensional at all. And The Healers with Weston is one of my favorite recordings of all time.

The only time I heard Shepp in performance was likewise in Montreal and likewise a few years back. It was a duo reunion with Horace Parlan (Vishnu Wood was added on bass for a few tunes and was generally superfluous as I recall). This show received very mixed reviews. I thought that it was wonderful, with Shepp mainly in the blues and spirituals bag, but he put on the old Fire Music hat for a scorching reading of "Mama Rose."

[Chalupa]

The one time I saw Archie Shepp live he was backed up by David Murray(and John Hicks, Fred Hopkins, and Andrew Cyrille!). It was about 15 years ago and Shepp was very drunk and could barely play. I mean embarrassingly drunk. Murray and rest of the fellows more than made up for him though.

Agree w/ the comments by Chris, Allen, and Marcello. That said, I never miss a chance to see Murray live because he always seems to surround himself with great musicians.

[king ubu]

c'mon guys, what about Shepp's "Live in San Francisco", "Mama Too Tight", the session with Izenzon, the live set from Newport with Booby?

That's a great series of recordings, in my humble opinion - there's more than just "Four for Trane"!

Also the NY Contemporary 5!

Later/"classicist" Shepp is different... but "Steam" (Enja) is great, so is the Marge/Blue Marge/Futura/whatever Terrones label "Attica Blues Big Band" 2CD set.

[AllenLowe]

Shepp certainly did some nice stuff - which is the session with Izenzon?

also, years ago I heard a god-awful concert up in Hartford for Martin Luther King Day - Ray Anderson, Threadgill, Shepp - an aimless mess, almost a parody of free jazz - HOWEVER - they played one arrangement of Shepp's that was short and quite gorgeous, Ellingtonian in sound.

The guy is talented - I've just gotten bored with him, sorry - if I hear Mama Rose one more time I may have to exhume her myself and bury her at sea -

Edited May 14, 2008 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

Shepp has always been erratic, and that's putting it mildly. When he's not on, hey...rambling, aimless, full of sound & fury, etc. But when he is on, also hey - it's some powerful tenor playing. And there's no real cutoff point as to where it becomes all one or the other.

[king ubu]

Shepp certainly did some nice stuff - which is the session with Izenzon?

also, years ago I heard a god-awful concert up in Hartford for Martin Luther King Day - Ray Anderson, Threadgill, Shepp - an aimless mess, almost a parody of free jazz - HOWEVER - they played one arrangement of Shepp's that was short and quite gorgeous, Ellingtonian in sound.

The guy is talented - I've just gotten bored with him, sorry - if I hear Mama Rose one more time I may have to exhume her myself and bury her at sea -

Well, I haven't been around all those years when Shepp grew boring... I know some of that not so great music of his, too, but I mostly just ignored it so far, so I can't really tell...

Here's the info from jazzdisco on the trio session - the CD reissue of "On This Night" (GRD 125 - and old jewel case "domestic" Impulse CD) collects it all:

Archie Shepp Trio

Archie Shepp (ts, recit) David Izenzon (b) J.C. Moses (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, March 9, 1965

90299-1 The Chased (take 1) Impulse IA 9357-2, GRD 125

90299-2 The Chased (take 2) -

90299-3 The Chased (take 3) Impulse A 101, ASY 9284-3, IA 9357-2, GRD 125

90300 The Pickaninny (Picked Clean-No More-Or Can You Back Back Doodlebug) Impulse A 97, IA 9357-2

90301 Malcom, Malcom, Semper Malcom Impulse A 86, IA 9357-2, GRD 125

* Archie Shepp - The Dedication Series, Vol. XVII: Further Fire Music (Impulse IA 9357-2)

* Various Artists - The Definitive Jazz Scene, Vol. 3 (Impulse A 101, A 9101)

* Various Artists - The Bass (Impulse ASY 9284-3)

* Archie Shepp - On This Night (Impulse A 97, GRD 125)

* Archie Shepp - Fire Music (Impulse A 86, IMPD 158)

[clifford_thornton]

c'mon guys, what about Shepp's "Live in San Francisco", "Mama Too Tight", the session with Izenzon, the live set from Newport with Booby?

That's a great series of recordings, in my humble opinion - there's more than just "Four for Trane"!

Also the NY Contemporary 5!

Keep in mind that that shit is over forty years old, great as it is. He had an amazing run in the '60s and some solid stuff in the '70s, but what we're talking about is more recent. It is erratic, indeed, though there are moments of brilliance.

Murray is erratic and occasionally really, really brilliant as well, but he doesn't have the historical buoyance that Shepp does (for better or worse).