AotW - Stan Getz & Charlie Byrd - Jazz Samba

[GA Russell]

I have to disagree with the negative vibe this board has toward Charlie Byrd. I saw him in Pittsburgh in 1975 and really enjoyed him.

Just about every song on Jazz Samba became a bossa nova standard. And they are all songs that I haven't gotten tired of, no matter how many different recordings of them I have.

I play a lot of bossa nova during the warm weather months, and this one in particular gets a lot of play.

[Niko]

this was posted on the west coast jazz list earlier today

Bill Reichenbach, SR., a jazz drummer who played on early bossa nova

records with Charlie Byrd and Stan Getz, died yesterday in

Hollywood, CA. He was the father of West Coast trombonist Bill

Reichenbach, Jr. and singer Kurt Reichenbach.

Jazz Samba, with Getz and Byrd, on which Bill, Sr. played drums, is

in the Grammy Hall of Fame. Reichenbach, who operated out of the

Washington, DC area when he was active, also played and recorded

with a wide variety of other musicians and singers, including Tommy

Dorsey and Georgia Gibbs. In preparation for recording the Jazz

Samba album, Byrd and Reichenbach traveled to Brazil in 1961 and

returned home with a wide variety of research materials, including

recordings by Antonio Carlos Jobim which had scarcely been heard

north of the border at that point in history.

Reichenbach, Sr's last recording was with his sons, Bill, Jr. and

Kurt on the latter's recent recording, The Night Was Blue.

Reichenbach's wife died last December. Reichenbach, Sr. has been in

failing health recently, and recently moved west to be closer to his

sons, but at the present time the cause of death is not known.

[JSngry]

"Baia" still carries a mojo for me, especially the opening vamp.

[mikeweil]

As to the beginnings of Bossa Nova: where (if anywhere) do the Bud Shank/ Laurindo Almeida "Brazilliance" (1953!) and the soundtrack to Black Orpheus fit in. I think Black Orpheus is post 1958 and maybe Brazilliance is only Bossa Nova in retrospect.

The movie Orfeo Negro was released in 1959 - the first Bossa Nova records in Brazil by Joao Gilberto were from 1958. Luiz Bonfa, who did the music for the movie, was part of the early development of the music. I don't know if the movie helped popularize the music - it was around for a while, as were the first bossa nova meets jazz LPs by Herbie Mann, Cannonball Adderley and Charlie Byrd when Getz hit it big - Getz' sax may have been the crucial ingredient for the mass audience.

Edited May 20, 2008 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

Brazilliance was probably the first Brazillian Jazz records recorded in the US. But it's not Bossa Nova. The Rhythm section is wrong, and rhythm is a key player of that style.

I don't get your point. Of course it is not bossa nova, as this style hadn't been invented by 1953. Brazilliance refers to Choro, which uses a variety of rhythms - mostly Baiao and Xaxado - and Harry Babasin and Roy Harte did a formidable job in adapting themselves to these without losing their jazz identity. So what is "wrong" about the rhythm section?

Edited May 20, 2008 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

"Baia" still carries a mojo for me, especially the opening vamp.

Yeah - I once wrote a whole arrangement around that vamp for a trio I played in.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

As to the beginnings of Bossa Nova: where (if anywhere) do the Bud Shank/ Laurindo Almeida "Brazilliance" (1953!) and the soundtrack to Black Orpheus fit in. I think Black Orpheus is post 1958 and maybe Brazilliance is only Bossa Nova in retrospect.

The movie Orfeo Negro was released in 1959 - the first Bossa Nova records in Brazil by Joao Gilberto were from 1958. Luiz Bonfa, who did the music for the movie, was part of the early development of the music. I don't know if the movie helped popularize the music - it was around for a while, as were the first bossa nova meets jazz LPs by Herbie Mann, Cannonball Adderley and Charlie Byrd when Getz hit it big - Getz' sax may have been the crucial ingredient for the mass audience.

I don't know about the Charlie Byrd albums you're talking about Mike, but "Cannonball's bossa nova" was recorded in December 1962, by which time Getz' album had been on the charts two/three months. In October 1962, Herbie Mann made several albums for Atlantic in Brazil - "Do the bossa nova", "Recorded in Rio" and part of "Latin fever". His earlier album in this vein, which I haven't heard so I don't know what it's like, was for UA and I think was called "Brazil bossa and blues" - recorded late 1961/early 1962. So maybe it was slightly earlier than the Getz or maybe about contemporaneous. It appears to have been originally issued on UA 14009/15009 but I don't know the release date, because it had been deleted by June 1967, the date of my earliest Schwann catalog.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just checked on the detail of Herbie Mann's album "Right now". This apears to be a bossa nova LP, at least in part. Tracks include "Meditation", "Desafinado", "Borquino" and "Carnival". But the musicians aren't Brazilian - but there's the usual suspects doing Latin percussion: Bobo, Pacheco, Rodriguez, Valdes. This LP was recorded in March and April 1962, so it's a little bit later than "Jazz samba". It got onto the Billboard chart about six weeks after "Jazz samba".

I've done a little digging on Charlie Byrd. His first bossa nova LP for Riverside was "Latin impressions" RLP427. I don't have an accurate date for this - just 1962, but it was probably before April, when part of his next LP was recorded.

MG

[AndrewHill]

"Baia" still carries a mojo for me, especially the opening vamp.

Yeah - I once wrote a whole arrangement around that vamp for a trio I played in.

Listening to that 'vamp' right now as I write this.

I'm no bossa nova connoisseur, but I think Jazz Samba is a pretty good album and Charlie Byrd captures in my opinion, the bossa nova mood here. I probably would choose this album as my favorite out of all the bossa discs Stan cut throughout his career.

[RiRiIII]

I like this album okay, but I've never understood how THIS album was the one that kicked off the samba craze; didn't that honor go to Getz/Gilberto? If not, it should have.

Getz/Gilberto was 1964. Bit hard to start a craze two years after.

MG

To start off with, I don't think it makes a lot of difference to the enjoyment of the music, when exactly it started off and who deserves the credit for having it started. But I thought it important to add a Brazilian perspective to the discussion.

I live currently in Rio de Janeiro (Ipanema, to be precise), and this is the year when the 50th birthday of bossa nova is celebrated. That puts the birthday into the year 1958. In that year Antonio Carlos "Tom" Jobim and Vinicius de Moraes teamed up for the first time and produced the 13-track album "Canção do Amor Demais". The album was released under the name of Elizeth Cardoso, who sang all the songs. Later, in August of the same year, Jõao Gilberto released a single record of "Chega de Saudade" one of the songs on the aformentioned album. (The B side was "Bim Bom," a composition by João himself.) His his style of singing, which sounded more like melodic speaking, and the way he accompanied himself on the guitar are the reasons why this recording of "Chega de Saudade" is generally considered as the first bossa nova record.

But I notice that the original poster didn't talk about the start of bossa nova but about what kicked off the bossa nova craze. Obviously, before you can get crazy about something, that something has to exist. How long does it take for a new thing to turn into a craze? Your guess is as good as mine. But for me the Getz/Gilberto album is a more valid candidate because it includes some of the original players.

Gato

Since I adore these Getz bossa-nova albums, I desperately wanted to find these legendary first 3 LPs by Joao Gilberto that started it all: "Chega De Saudade" (59), "O Amor, O Sorriso E A Flor" (60) and "Joao Gilberto" (61). They had been reissued in 1990 one one CD with 38 tracks called "LEGENDARY JOAO GILBERTO" (World Pacific CDP-793891-2). It is out of print and reprinted in Korea two years ago. I think is this one also deleted by now. Then after some searching in the web, I noticed that Joao Gilberto sued EMI for issuing this CD without his permission, without paying him. He also accused EMI for bad remastering (I have no problem and I treasure this CD ). All this is metnioned in a series of postings as per the link http://tinyurl.com/4rdlj4 . The main messages are in portuguese and I cannot totally understand them. If Gato could be of help I would be grateful.

Moreover, the Laurindo Almeida Braziliance records (I think there are two) are also very good although are more jazz-ish than boss nova. I also read (I think in the Mosaic Gillespie box or in Gillespie's recent biography) that Lalo Shifrin's "The New Continent" suite composed for Dizzy Gillespie and performed in Monterey in September 1962 could have been the initiator of the bossa nova craze but was not then timely released on record. It was released by UA some years later. Check the following for this LP: http://orgyinrhythm.blogspot.com/2008/01/d...-continent.html

Best,

Alex

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hi Alex and welcome.

MG

[Harold_Z]

For the record, I love the Getz/Byrd albums. As concerns Charlie Byrd - imho he does a nice job, but anyone really interested in this type of guitar playing should listen to some Baden Powell. Too bad Stan Getz and Baden never recorded together.

[GatoMedio]

Since I adore these Getz bossa-nova albums, I desperately wanted to find these legendary first 3 LPs by Joao Gilberto that started it all: "Chega De Saudade" (59), "O Amor, O Sorriso E A Flor" (60) and "Joao Gilberto" (61). They had been reissued in 1990 one one CD with 38 tracks called "LEGENDARY JOAO GILBERTO" (World Pacific CDP-793891-2). It is out of print and reprinted in Korea two years ago. I think is this one also deleted by now. Then after some searching in the web, I noticed that Joao Gilberto sued EMI for issuing this CD without his permission, without paying him. He also accused EMI for bad remastering (I have no problem and I treasure this CD rolleyes.gif ). All this is metnioned in a series of postings as per the link http://tinyurl.com/4rdlj4 . The main messages are in portuguese and I cannot totally understand them. If Gato could be of help I would be grateful.

Moreover, the Laurindo Almeida Braziliance records (I think there are two) are also very good although are more jazz-ish than boss nova. I also read (I think in the Mosaic Gillespie box or in Gillespie's recent biography) that Lalo Shifrin's "The New Continent" suite composed for Dizzy Gillespie and performed in Monterey in September 1962 could have been the initiator of the bossa nova craze but was not then timely released on record. It was released by UA some years later. Check the following for this LP: http://orgyinrhythm.blogspot.com/2008/01/d...-continent.html

Best,

Alex

Hi, Alex

Sorry about the slow response to your request.

I had a look at the postings you mentioned. The portuguese part consists of three articles from the "O Globo" newspaper.

The first one, entitled "To whom does the voice belong" reports that João Gilberto is sueing EMI, basically for three reasons. 1) They have reissued his early recordings without paying him. 2) They have authorized the use of his recording of "Coisa mais linda" in a TV commercial without consulting him, and 3) The remastering severely distorts the original recording. For the last point, three expert's reports are quoted which confirm that there are significant differences between the original vinyl and the remastered CD version.

The second article starts of by mentioning that EMI has treated the re-issue of Milton Nascimento's early recordings quite differently. It then reports the outcome of the court case. The judge condemned EMI to pay both for the re-issued songs and for the use in the TV commercial. On the question of the remastering the judge agrees that there have been significant alterations, but concludes that these differences would not be noticed by the average listener and lifts the ban on the sale of the CD that had been previously imposed. The article comments that this kind of logic takes away the artist's right do decide what happens to his/her work.

The third article is an extract from the comment by Caetano Veloso (a big name in Brazilian popular music), who wrote one of the expert's reports that support the case that significant changes where made. Caetano praises João Gilberto and his contribution to Brazilian music, clasifies the remastering desastrous and calls for the restoration of the original beauty of the recordings.

As far as the first three LPs by João Gilberto are concerned, I remember that when I signed up for this site, there was a rule about not posting links to download sites. I hope it's not against the rules to mention that all three albums are available for download, posted by people who convert original, out-of-print vinyl to mp3. I won't post the urls. But if you're interested drop me a line and I'll send them to you.

Gato