Philipp Freiherr von Boeselager, RIP

[GA Russell]

Here's his AP obituary:

http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-...0,6146788.story

From the Associated Press

8:01 AM PDT, May 2, 2008 BERLIN -- Philipp Freiherr von Boeselager, believed to be the last surviving member of the inner circle of plotters who attempted to kill Adolf Hitler in 1944 with a briefcase bomb, has died. He was 90.

The German military said in a statement today that the former army major died Thursday night. It did not give a cause of death.

Von Boeselager was part of a group of officers who tried to kill Hitler on July 20, 1944, supplying explosives for the operation led by Col. Claus Graf Schenk von Stauffenberg.

The von Stauffenberg plot is the basis for the upcoming Tom Cruise film "Valkyrie" in which the American actor plays the aristocratic colonel.

Von Stauffenberg placed the bomb in a conference room where Hitler was meeting with his aides and military advisers but escaped the blast when someone moved the briefcase next to a table leg, deflecting much of the explosive force.

Almost immediately afterward, von Stauffenberg and many of his cohorts were arrested and executed in an orgy of revenge killings that saw some hanged by the neck with piano wire. Though many of those rounded up by Nazi officials were tortured in the hopes they would give up other conspirators, von Boeselager's name was never divulged and he was never found out.

Still, he carried a cyanide capsule with him until the end of the war in case his secret was revealed.

Von Boeselager, who lived in Altenahr, near Bonn, was first recruited by von Stauffenberg coconspirator Maj. Gen. Henning von Tresckow in 1942, he told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung in an interview three weeks ago that was published today.

He said he knew that Jews were being systematically killed and that Germany was waging a war of annihilation along the Eastern Front with Russia and that he never considered declining taking part in the plot.

By 1942, he said that "It was no longer about saving the country, but about stopping the crimes," the newspaper quoted him as saying.

Assigned to the army high command as an aide to Field Marshal Gunther von Kluge, the plotters first arranged for von Boeselager to try and shoot both Hitler and SS-chief Heinrich Himmler at a meeting in 1943.

Von Kluge, who committed suicide a month after the 1944 attempt on Hitler, called the assassination off at the last minute after learning that Himmler would not be at the meeting.

Von Boeselager followed von Kluge's orders, but told the FAZ the decision to do so never ceased to haunt him.

"I always see Hitler from here to the fireplace in front of me and think 'What would have happened if you had shot him?"' he told FAZ, describing a distance of about two feet with his hands.

He also recalled when he joined the von Stauffenberg plot: his brother called him in the spring of 1944, asking for his help in providing explosives.

Von Boeselager recommended English-made explosives as the best, and -- as part of his assignment to an explosives research team -- was able to acquire them without drawing suspicion.

He delivered them to Maj. Gen. Helmuth Stieff, packed into a suitcase. Stieff was later executed for his role in the plot, and von Boeselager's brother was killed in fighting on the Eastern Front.

Had the bombing succeeded, von Boeselager said he was assigned to lead a 1,000-man unit into Berlin to secure the capital.

Von Boeselager told FAZ that in the years immediately after the war, he spoke with his wife, Rosa, about his role in the resistance, but otherwise said little else.

"There was nobody one could talk with about it," he said. "They were all dead, and with others it would just have been bragging."

There was also the fact that immediately after World War II, the July 20 plotters were widely viewed as traitors, a label the Nazis gave them that stuck for years.

"For a long time, it was not believable to normal Germans that the government was criminal," he recalled. "And as soon as one thought they had pushed that out of the way, then people just didn't want to know."

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Al-Qaeda learned an important lesson from von Stauffenberg --- never leave your explosives unattended.

[AllenLowe]

funny you should mention that - I recently called the suicide hotline, and I found out it was out-sourced to Pakistan - I told them I was feeling suicidal, and they got all excited and asked me if I knew how to drive a truck -

[7/4]

funny you should mention that - I recently called the suicide hotline, and I found out it was out-sourced to Pakistan - I told them I was feeling suicidal, and they got all excited and asked me if I knew how to drive a truck -

Didn't you use this one a few weeks ago already?

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

funny you should mention that - I recently called the suicide hotline, and I found out it was out-sourced to Pakistan - I told them I was feeling suicidal, and they got all excited and asked me if I knew how to drive a truck -

Hmmm, interesting. Did he then mail you a starter kit containing a small vial of amphetamines and a Don't Drive Tired motivational sticker to be placed on the rear view mirror?

[AllenLowe]

"Didn't you use this one a few weeks ago already?"

gotta ask dumpy mama - he tracks all my posts -

also has a wall full of pictures of me -

now, some people would be creeped out by all that - but I figure my cd sales are so low and my fan base so depleted I'll take what I can get -

Edited May 3, 2008 by AllenLowe

[Swinging Swede]

I wonder how different Europe (and maybe the world) had been if Hitler had been shot in 1943?

[porcy62]

I wonder how different Europe (and maybe the world) had been if Hitler had been shot in 1943?

Who knows, maybe the war would have turnd into West/East conflict.

[Niko]

I wonder how different Europe (and maybe the world) had been if Hitler had been shot in 1943?

don't think it would have made much of a difference, he should have been shot like in 1934 or 1939 at the latest - always had difficulties to really appreciate the Stauffenberg group, i mean, they died for what was essentially a good thing, but i don't think they (mainly) did it for the right reasons (stop the holocaust, prevent ww2 from happening); it was rather that they were shocked at how madly hitler organized his war (a thing which shouldn't actually suprise anyone who heard hitler talk for more than 30 seconds - the guy was obviously mad)

[porcy62]

I wonder how different Europe (and maybe the world) had been if Hitler had been shot in 1943?

don't think it would have made much of a difference, he should have been shot like in 1934 or 1939 at the latest - always had difficulties to really appreciate the Stauffenberg group, i mean, they died for what was essentially a good thing, but i don't think they (mainly) did it for the right reasons (stop the holocaust, prevent ww2 from happening); it was rather that they were shocked at how madly hitler organized his war (a thing which shouldn't actually suprise anyone who heard hitler talk for more than 30 seconds - the guy was obviously mad)

Yep, it might seem some sort of revenge for having stolen the power of old prussian militar aristocracy.

At first all those 'Vons' Marshalls, Generals and Colonels looked at Hitler with sympathy, like the man who could restore old hierarchy and wipe out all socialists and democrats, afterwards when the war was already lost they fight back. It could be an interpretation.

Edited May 3, 2008 by porcy62

[Jazzmoose]

I'd certainly be willing to kick him in the nuts with my Vans...

[Jazzmoose]

Oops...excuse me; there are some men in dark suits with ugly sunglasses knocking at the door.

[AllenLowe]

Von Freeman?

[Dave James]

I wonder how different Europe (and maybe the world) had been if Hitler had been shot in 1943?

don't think it would have made much of a difference, he should have been shot like in 1934 or 1939 at the latest - always had difficulties to really appreciate the Stauffenberg group, i mean, they died for what was essentially a good thing, but i don't think they (mainly) did it for the right reasons (stop the holocaust, prevent ww2 from happening); it was rather that they were shocked at how madly hitler organized his war (a thing which shouldn't actually suprise anyone who heard hitler talk for more than 30 seconds - the guy was obviously mad)

Considering the volatility of the situation from late 1942 on, how you can say you don't think it would have a difference if Hitler had been assassinated? Had this happened, in all likelihood, Germany would have sued for peace. That would have frozen everything in place leaving the Russians on the outside looking in, perhaps changing the face of the cold war. It could have also had an effect on the war with Japan, as resources devoted to the war in Europe could have been redirected to the Pacific Theater. Thinking more broadly, what if the allies had captured the whole of German technology, leaving the Russian's plate empty? Personally, I think this could easily have changed history in ways we can't even imagine.

Up over and out.

[sidewinder]

Yep, it might seem some sort of revenge for having stolen the power of old prussian militar aristocracy.

At first all those 'Vons' Marshalls, Generals and Colonels looked at Hitler with sympathy, like the man who could restore old hierarchy and wipe out all socialists and democrats, afterwards when the war was already lost they fight back. It could be an interpretation.

Indeed. It would seem that it was only after the horrors of Stalingrad and the Eastern Front into 1943 that the Wehrmacht officer corps could see that the situation was irretrievable and that the only solution would be to take Hitler out and do a deal. Before then it would seem that they were more than happy to go along with his plans.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Yep, it might seem some sort of revenge for having stolen the power of old prussian militar aristocracy.

At first all those 'Vons' Marshalls, Generals and Colonels looked at Hitler with sympathy, like the man who could restore old hierarchy and wipe out all socialists and democrats, afterwards when the war was already lost they fight back. It could be an interpretation.

Indeed. It would seem that it was only after the horrors of Stalingrad and the Eastern Front into 1943 that the Wehrmacht officer corps could see that the situation was irretrievable and that the only solution would be to take Hitler out and do a deal. Before then it would seem that they were more than happy to go along with his plans.

The last major 'victory' on the Eastern Front was at Kharkov in March '43 when Manstein counter-attacked hard and stopped the Soviets dead in their tracks. At that point Manstein wanted to maintain the momentum and continue to 'pile on' the Soviets who were reeling from Kharkov. He wanted to launch a May offensive but Hitler held things up until July. That was the last real opportunity to make headway in the east and Manstein & Co, knew that it was all over. Had either of the March '43 bomb plots (von Tresckow (in Ukraine) or von Gertsdorff) been successful, Manstein likely would have prevailed upon Hitler's successor to stick to a May deadline, thus leaving the Russians little time to prepare defensive operations in the area around Kursk. Had that happened (Kursk operation taking place in May rather than July '43), I'm guessing that the Russians would have been hammered senseless....and who knows what would have happened after that? We know for certain that the Russians had contacted German diplomats earlier in Sweden and indicated a willingness to go some sort of negotiated settlement route and that Mussolini had made a similar appeal to Hitler when they met in April. Had the outcome at Kursk been different and temporarily given them the upper hand, perhaps Hitler's replacement would have decided to go that route? This type of war of total conquest/occupation was not the norm in Europe and you'd have to think that a large segment of the officer corps would have been happy to do a deal of sorts and come out of this with some sizeable chunk of real estate.

[porcy62]

Yep, it might seem some sort of revenge for having stolen the power of old prussian militar aristocracy.

At first all those 'Vons' Marshalls, Generals and Colonels looked at Hitler with sympathy, like the man who could restore old hierarchy and wipe out all socialists and democrats, afterwards when the war was already lost they fight back. It could be an interpretation.

Indeed. It would seem that it was only after the horrors of Stalingrad and the Eastern Front into 1943 that the Wehrmacht officer corps could see that the situation was irretrievable and that the only solution would be to take Hitler out and do a deal. Before then it would seem that they were more than happy to go along with his plans.

The last major 'victory' on the Eastern Front was at Kharkov in March '43 when Manstein counter-attacked hard and stopped the Soviets dead in their tracks. At that point Manstein wanted to maintain the momentum and continue to 'pile on' the Soviets who were reeling from Kharkov. He wanted to launch a May offensive but Hitler held things up until July. That was the last real opportunity to make headway in the east and Manstein & Co, knew that it was all over. Had either of the March '43 bomb plots (von Tresckow (in Ukraine) or von Gertsdorff) been successful, Manstein likely would have prevailed upon Hitler's successor to stick to a May deadline, thus leaving the Russians little time to prepare defensive operations in the area around Kursk. Had that happened (Kursk operation taking place in May rather than July '43), I'm guessing that the Russians would have been hammered senseless....and who knows what would have happened after that? We know for certain that the Russians had contacted German diplomats earlier in Sweden and indicated a willingness to go some sort of negotiated settlement route and that Mussolini had made a similar appeal to Hitler when they met in April. Had the outcome at Kursk been different and temporarily given them the upper hand, perhaps Hitler's replacement would have decided to go that route? This type of war of total conquest/occupation was not the norm in Europe and you'd have to think that a large segment of the officer corps would have been happy to do a deal of sorts and come out of this with some sizeable chunk of real estate.

Interesting, thanks!