Andrew Hill - Passing Ships

[Rooster_Ties]

From the "Passing Ships" linernotes...

Andrew used the 8/8 Latin rhythm in "Noon Tide" four years earlier for his composition "Catta" which appears on Bobby Hutcherson's "Dialogue".

Same rhythm patterns and essentially the same vamp (at least in the piano), but the melody over it is different. Threw me for a loop too, the first time I heard it on "Passing Ships". I'm thinking -- where the hell have I heard this before?????

[Joe]

Another oddball impression - parts of it - maybe just the overall feel - remind me of "Mode for Joe".

The session I kept thinking of was Sonny Criss's SONNY'S DREAM: BIRTH OF THE NEW COOL, with arrangements by Horace Tapscott. Partly this is due to similarities in Hill's and Tapscott's use of bass clef instruments, partly to some similar rhythmic devices. That said, Hill's scores are much more active and asymmetrical than Tapscott's... Another interesting thing to consider is that this session was recorded right on the cusp of the 1970's, and that several of the musicians involved -- Farrell, White, Priester, Johnson, even Shaw to a certain extent -- would go on to have important careers in "fusion".

So far, I like PASSING SHIPS OK, but I'm not ready to proclaim it much more than "intriguing" at this point.

Edited October 9, 2003 by Joe

[mgraham333]

Thanks Rooster, JSngry, relyles, and DrJ for the recommendations. I just ordered Grass Roots. I heard a few clips over at Amazon and that's the kind of Hill I was looking for.

[jazzbo]

Don't overlook "Dusk" and its' followup ("A Beautiful Day"--I think, can't remember the precise title) released in the last few years. Fantastic cds!

I'm looking forward to Passing Ships; this is the highlight disc in this batch as it is "new"!

[pryan]

Interestingly, I'm having a tiny bit of trouble figuring out who's who on the trumpet solos (on my very first listen, mind you), though I've heard a few that I was pretty certain whether it was Woody or Dizzy.  I'm sure I'll figure them out soon enough.

I haven't heard this disc, yet, but am really looking forward to it. I've got to say however, that it REALLY bugs me when there are two of the same instrument on a date and the liner don't tell who's soloing when. This REALLY, REALLY bugs me. Even if they would say left channel/ right channel it would be enough. I'm really surprised that Cuscuna would let this slip through. For what they're charging for the Conn's, they should give us this information. I was listening to Ike Quebec's Congo Lament Lp the other day and Michael does a great job in giving the solo order and telling when it's Quebec and when it's Turrentine.

John - I'm sure someone on this board could supply you with the info, with regard to which trumpeter solos when on each tune. I'd be more than happy to do it (I used to play trumpet, so I have a pretty good ear on distinguishing between musicians), but I'm going to have to wait a while to get the disc, being in Canada and all and having to wait for PASSING SHIPS to hit retail stores.

[John Tapscott]

John - I'm sure someone on this board could supply you with the info, with regard to which trumpeter solos when on each tune.  I'd be more than happy to do it (I used to play trumpet, so I have a pretty good ear on distinguishing between musicians), but I'm going to have to wait a while to get the disc, being in Canada and all and having to wait for PASSING SHIPS to hit retail stores.

Thanks Pryan, I've heard enough Woody Shaw over the years so that I can probably distinguish the trumpeters. But we can compare notes after we've both heard the CD. It just bothers when liner notes expect us to be such experts that WE have to do the work. It tells me that the liner note writer is not such an expert himself.

BTW, you may not have to wait too long for these. I'm in Canada, too. Check my recent posting in the Conn thread.

[Rooster_Ties]

I've heard enough Woody Shaw over the years so that I can probably distinguish the trumpeters.

That's what I would have thought too, and I may yet figure out who's who on all the solos. But Dizzy's soloing is more progressive than I even knew he had in him. (The only Dizzy I've ever hear is from about 1960 and before.)

Kind of a nice challenge, me thinks.

[pryan]

BTW, you may not have to wait too long for these. I'm in Canada, too. Check my recent posting in the Conn thread.

Yes, I read your post. BUT, you ordered them from HMV.com which pretty much guarantees that you'll get them reasonably soon, a few days perhaps. I, on the other hand, am waiting until they are put on store shelves, which may happen next week, two weeks from now, or not at all. Not much of a jazz selection here in Winnipeg, with a couple of exceptions (A&B Sound and a couple smaller used shops).

[Rooster_Ties]

The linernotes to "Passing Ships" mention this about Joe Farrell:

A lifelong champion of Andrew's Music, [Farrell] later recorded versions of [Hill's] "Catta" and "Symmetry."

But I can't seem to find what Farrell album(s) these might have been recorded on (at least I'm not finding them on the AMG). Anybody here know???

Edited October 9, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[John B]

I would also recommend checking out an excellent solo concert available for free download off of his website.

[Rooster_Ties]

I think what makes these Hill sessions from 67-70 so much fun, and so interesting (especially "Passing Ships"), is that they groove, and yet they still have that "Andrew Hill"-ness to them ----> all at the same time.

And, these 67-70 Hill dates seem to result in some of the most interesting and unique playing of Lee Morgan's, Woody Shaw's, Charles Tolliver's, and (now) Dizzy Reece's entire careers.

Makes me wonder if any more of those unreleased Hill dates from this time period are possibly worth releasing. Could it be that "Passing Ships" isn't the last new Hill material from this era?? One can only hope!!

[Soul Stream]

I don't count myself really a big fan of Hill's music. An admirer, yes. But to sit down and ENJOY an Andrew Hill LP from start to finish. Well, I'm just not there yet.

However, with that said, I must say "Passing Ships" may be the most accessible Hill I've encountered. "Grass Roots" sure...'Soul Special' is downright funky. But, "Passing Ships" is a real nice session that ANYONE into hard bop could enjoy.

[John L]

• Joe Farrell came to play on this session.

I agree 100% on the contributions of Farrell to this one. I am not yet familiar with "Dance With Death" (Somebody want to burn me a copy? ), but here Farrell sounds like he might have been listening to Joe Henderson's work on Black Fire, and listening well!

Lenny White keeps it solid at all times. He doesn't make the mistake that some drummers do in trying to "follow" Hill's rhythmic accents into a change of tempo. Hill plays off the rhythm here in the best of his tradition.

Some of the ensemble sections may not be tight enough to satisfy some listeners, but that is of little concern to me.

This is my favorite Blue Note release or reissue in a LONG TIME.

It sure makes me wonder what the other Andrew Hill in the vaults sounds like.

Let us hear it, Michael!

Edited October 10, 2003 by John L

[Late]

Going through this again, I tried to have a more critical ear. I agree that a few more rehearsals to tighten up some of the ensemble passages would have helped, but I also agree that this is not a concern that inhibits enjoying the music.

I'm liking Ron Carter less on this session ... and Lenny White more! But, I usually find that when I initially really like an album, my response over time takes a drastic dip at first (critically, that is; the happy sheen wears off some), and then I gradually come back to liking it the same all over again.

What's most important to me about this session is that it can be returned to and still provide interest — something that I find a lot of hardbop dates don't do.

[J.A.W.]

What's most important to me about this session is that it can be returned to and still provide interest — something that I find a lot of hardbop dates don't do.

Couldn't agree more.

[Late]

And here's what we still have to look forward to:

Unissued Andrew Hill dates:

• February 10, 1967: Robin Kenyatta, Sam Rivers, Cecil McBee, Teddy Robinson, Nadi Quamar

5 tracks

• May 17, 1967: Ron Carter, Teddy Robinson

6 tracks — the Chained session

• October 31, 1967: Woody Shaw, Robin Kenyatta, Sam Rivers, Howard Johnson, Herbie Lewis, Teddy Robinson

5 tracks

• June 13, 1969: Carlos Garnett, Karl Porter (bassoon), Richard Davis, Freddie Waits, Sanford Allen (vocal) + string quartet

Future Connoisseurs?

[Eric]

Wasn't one of these sequenced for a Japanese-only lp in the 70s or 80s? Surely if it got that far, it would be worthy of release.

I would still LOVE to get Andrew! and Dance with Death (on CD that is).

Eric

Edited October 10, 2003 by Eric

[Rooster_Ties]

• May 17, 1967: Ron Carter, Teddy Robinson

6 tracks — the Chained session

"Chained" was supposed to be released in Japan in the early 80's some time. It they went as least as far as giving it a catalog number and everything. I've often wondered if they ever created any cover art for the release. Some of those early Japanese "King" releases were pretty cool looking!!

[John L]

And here's what we still have to look forward to:

Unissued Andrew Hill dates:

• February 10, 1967: Robin Kenyatta, Sam Rivers, Cecil McBee, Teddy Robinson, Nadi Quamar

5 tracks

• May 17, 1967: Ron Carter, Teddy Robinson

6 tracks — the Chained session

• October 31, 1967: Woody Shaw, Robin Kenyatta, Sam Rivers, Howard Johnson, Herbie Lewis, Teddy Robinson

5 tracks

• June 13, 1969: Carlos Garnett, Karl Porter (bassoon), Richard Davis, Freddie Waits, Sanford Allen (vocal) + string quartet

Future Connoisseurs?

How long should we give Blue Note to get this out before we go in and get it ourselves?

[bertrand]

John,

How do you propose we do that

Bertrand.

[BruceH]

What's most important to me about this session is that it can be returned to and still provide interest — something that I find a lot of hardbop dates don't do.

YES, I'm already getting that impression.

[dova]

This hill session is like none other he has done or Blue Note has ever released. This may be a nonet but the unique thing about it is, at times when everybody is playing, it sounds like a 17 piece Big Band. Other times it sounds small group like some of Andrews other recordings. I especially like Hills montuno work. I also like the way Hill allows the horns ample opportunity to solo and gives himself solo space at just the right time. As for recording quality, it is about a 9 except when Lenny White slashes with Toms and cymbals and the remastering can't quite handle it. For those unfamiliar with Joe Farrell, look out beacuse when he enters the room and says something, his muscular sound grabs your attention. This is the first of the new Conns I've heard and have to admit it is a unique session that will require repeat listenings to appreciate how great it actually is.

[John L]

John,

How do you propose we do that

Bertrand.

Good question.

The power of Organissimo numbers? We could all push toward the vaults at once.

[David Ayers]

While we are on Hill, remember that the JRVG of Judgment! is now available. Black Fire and Smoke Stack are due in February, with only Black Fire scheduled for US/Euro release.

I know people are recommending late 60s Hill and accessible Hill etc, and perhaps taking for granted the Mosaic box, but I would suggest to newcomers that these three titles are among the best of Hill, and that two of them may not come round again in a while.

Edited October 10, 2003 by David Ayers

[Rooster_Ties]

Interesting how "Passing Ships" seems (at least to me) to be such a great place for people to start with (if they're new to Hill's music). It's both 'accessable' in one sense, but it retains more of Hill's imprint than "Grass Roots" (which I would call 'even more accessable', perhaps).

The writing on "Passing Ships" is both complex, subtle, and 'groovy'. It's that most elusive mix of 'inside' and 'outside' --- all at the same time!!!! --- that I love so much about the best of Hill's music.