Andrew Hill - Passing Ships

[Peter Johnson]

Mmmmmmmm, I like...

(arrived about three minutes ago in my mail!)

Nice, lush sounds; fascinating tonality and chord structures. A couple of ponderous moments on the first track thus far, but I'm only listening on my office computer.

This is definitely a keeper.

And has anyone noticed that it's mastered by Malcolm Addey? Yippee!

(Wish Addey had remastered "Thinking of Home." )

[relyles]

Ron Carter, that's the wildcard for me. If he came to play, it'll all be good. If not...

Jim,

It is interesting that you mention Ron Carter. I generally enjoy Carter's playing, but while listening to this disc I could not help but wish Richard Davis was on hand. Carter is okay, but he does not bring the same elasticity that Davis brought to Hill's music. With Davis, you always felt like the rhythm section was pushing the soloists while also providing a contrast to what else may be going on whereas IMO Carter does not get past providing support. He supports well, but similar to your comments regarding Hill's music needing a sense of "abandon", I think Davis' interaction with Hill and either Roy Haynes or Elvin Jones provided a good deal of the abandon as you call it, or the edge and/or sense of adventure that I enjoy most in Hill's music.

[relyles]

Y'all really like DANCE WITH DEATH that much?

Yes, compared to later Blue Note Hill, but not as much as Black Fire, Judgment, Point of Departure and Andrew!!!

[jlhoots]

If we all go out & buy this (I did), do we then eventually get Andrew!!! & Compulsion???

[Rooster_Ties]

Y'all really like DANCE WITH DEATH that much?

Yes, compared to later Blue Note Hill, but not as much as Black Fire, Judgment, Point of Departure and Andrew!!!

Me too, sorta. It took me a long time to get into "Dance With Death", but now I really like it - quite a bit. It's no "Black Fire", to be sure. But as long as I don't expect it to be, I do really find lots of things to like in it, on it's own merits. (Charles Tolliver, for sure!!!!)

Or, in other words, regardless of Andrew's earlier output, I like and treasure most of his later BN out put too --- just in a different way.

Generally speaking, I have a sweet spot for quirky and/or slightly avant dates that also have some accessible traits to them too --- particularly if they are both quirky and slightly more accessible at the same time.

"Dance With Death" fits well with that area of interest for me, and I think it (DwD) is probably as good an album as "Grass Roots", now that I think of it. But "Lift Every Voice" beats 'em both.

And frankly, as much as I like "Lift Every Voice", in some ways I'm even more interested in "Passing Ships" (partly because it's got Woody Shaw, and partly because it's Andrew Hill in 1969) --- than I might have been in another 'lost' Andrew Hill date from say 1965 or '66.

Or, yet another (stupid?) way of putting it is this: A 'lost' Andrew Hill album from 1965 might be better, but a great 'lost' Andrew Hill album from 1969 probably would be cooler, if you catch my drift. B) (And no, I don't expect all that many of you necessarily just caught that drift. )

[skeith]

Well, as a matter of fact there is a "lost" Hill from 1965 and that's the session that has Joe Henderson and I think Freddie Hubbard. (Maybe it is on the Mosaic box, I am not sure). I think that session beats "Lift Every Voice" and "Grass Roots".

And to repeat what others have said, the fact that "Andrew!!!" has never been not out as a single is criminal (maybe because it was on the Mosaic box?).

I haven't heard Ships yet, but as soon as I get it...

[relyles]

Well, as a matter of fact there is a "lost" Hill from 1965 and that's the session that has Joe Henderson and I think Freddie Hubbard. (Maybe it is on the Mosaic box, I am not sure).

Yes, it was included in the Mosaic box as well as half of One For One

[Rooster_Ties]

Well, as a matter of fact there is a "lost" Hill from 1965 and that's the session that has Joe Henderson and I think Freddie Hubbard.  (Maybe it is on the Mosaic box, I am not sure).

Yes, it was included in the Mosaic box as well as half of One For One

What I meant in my original post was (hypothetically speaking) if there turned out to be another 'lost' 1965 session (besides the "One For One" session on the Mosaic)..... -- vs. "Passing Ships" -- which is a 'lost' 1969 session.

Edited October 8, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

Not sure how to collect all my thoughts about "Passing Ships" after only one time through, except to say that I really liked it quite a bit, and expect it only to grow on me more and more and more, over time. (And in some ways, it reminds me of Duke Pearson arranged date on some serious steroids, with Andrew guesting on keys.)

Love the complex vamps behind many of the solos -- complex enough that I couldn't hum along with them instantly, and I know I'll take great pleasure in learning them well enough to "play along" with the recording.

In some ways, a few of the tunes remind me of "Grass Roots" on steroids, especially "Plantation Bag". Ron Carter's playing reminds me of "Grass Roots" too. Not entirely in a bad way always, but not entirely in a 'great' way either. He's kinda just there, and kinda 'heavy' at times.

Interestingly, I'm having a tiny bit of trouble figuring out who's who on the trumpet solos (on my very first listen, mind you), though I've heard a few that I was pretty certain whether it was Woody or Dizzy. I'm sure I'll figure them out soon enough.

Funny thing is that in some ways (on a few tunes, though not every one), this album totally sounds like I would expect a "small big-band" date to sound like from Andrew Hill. I know that's a cheesy thing to say, but it's true. It really does sound like Hill with a biggish-band, especially in 1969.

I love it!!! Which is to say (like I do about every Andrew Hill release), that I know I'll find new things in this album every time I hear it, for dozens and dozens of listens to come. I'm still hearing new things in all his other albums, and finding new ways to approach them, even a decade after I first heard them. "Passing Ships" appears to be one that will hold lots of secrets and reveal them slowly over time --- which is what the draw of Andrew Hill is for me. He always keeps me guessing, even when I get familiar with the albums. And it's that "always keeps me guessing" aspect of Hill that I love, as much as the music itself. And that's what I love about Andrew Hill's music so much.

By the way, the U.S. Conns are definitely not copy protected - as I burned a copy to listen to in the car, and keep in my glove box semi-permanently. (In fact, what I listened to just now was the copy.)

Edited October 8, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Late]

Initial impressions:

• Joe Farrell came to play on this session. In the context of this recording, and considering he's covering five reeds, I can't think of anyone I'd rather hear. While I think I generally prefer the "abandon" of Carlos Garnett or Bennie Maupin, Farrell is near-perfect for this date. And some of his tenor solos truly do have that sense of "abandon" that Hill's music seems to call out for.

• Dizzy Reece? Yes. This ain't the Dizzy Reece from Blues in Trinity any more. Harmonically advanced enough at this time to go head-to-head with Woody Shaw, it's a joy to hear his work on this session, and I'm glad Hill chose two trumpet players for this recording.

• Malcolm Addey should be the default Connoisseur remaster engineer.

• Good God, some of these compositions ("Noon Tide") and arrangements ("The Brown Queen") are beautiful. This session will be one to return to again and again. I can only predict that when it eventually goes out-of-print, it will be in heavy demand.

• I can't fathom any other unreleased Andrew Hill Blue Note sessions being this engaging. I'm not hearing the relative stasis in the rhythm section as mentioned above. Lenny White? I'm not really familiar with his work, but he's cookin' it and servin' it up here — certainly a la Tony Williams. I would have to agree that I'd prefer to hear Richard Davis — or perhaps Ronnie Boykins — instead of Carter here, but Carter's bass is recorded well for this session, and that's always nice to hear. Sometimes I think that Carter's relative sophistication as a performer gets in the way of what might be called a "positive aggression" as an accompanist and time (or no time) keeper. Nonetheless, it's useless to split hairs, and Carter certainly isn't remiss or mundane on this date.

• Brother Ah on French horn!

[Rooster_Ties]

Just listened to the first three tunes again on my car stereo (which has quite a bit more 'kick' to it than my PC's speakers), and I am really blown away by this disc. There are some moments that are a little rought around the edges, sure. But overall, it's easily as good as anything Hill recorded on BN after 1965, and probably better than "Grass Roots" (at times).

Hill does it again!!!

[vibes]

I'm really enjoying this one too. I've only listened to the first three tracks so far, but I'm impressed. It makes me wonder what Andrew would have done with a group this size around the time "Black Fire" and "Judgment" were recorded.

This is a great release! I can't remember being this excited about a new release in a very long time. I made up an excuse about having an errand to run and then left work early so I could listen to this and some of the other new music I picked up today.

[Late]

Two other impressions:

• Damn cool color photos of Farrell and Shaw on the inside booklet jacket! Let this be a trend!

• Why is the (colorized black-and-white) inlay photo of Andrew Hill the same one used for Grass Roots? Surely there are others that could have been used.

[Rooster_Ties]

• Damn cool color photos of Farrell and Shaw on the inside booklet jacket! Let this be a trend!

Before today, I'm not sure I ever realized that Joe Farrell was white. (I guess I just assumed he was Black all these years.)

I'm not sure I've ever seen a picture of him before today, now that I think of it.

[mgraham333]

I wouldn't consider myself an Andrew Hill fan. Although prior to Passing Ships my only exposure to Hill was Point of Departure.

I am really enjoying Passing Ships, especially the title track. What would else should I be checking out? (more like PS and less like PoD).

[Rooster_Ties]

I am really enjoying Passing Ships, especially the title track. What would else should I be checking out? (more like PS and less like PoD).

Get "Grass Roots" for sure, which is Hill's attempt at something akin to soul-jazz (though entirely mixed with Hill's advanced concepts, at least on some level). It was a Conn just a few years ago, and should be fairly easy to locate - at least on-line. It was from 1967 (if I remember right), and is stylistically pretty similar to "Passing Ships" in a number of ways.

Next would be "Lift Every Voice", which was recorded in 1969 and 1970, around the same time as "Passing Ships". Warning - it has a small vocal choir on it (of about 7-9 voices), but they sing mostly wordless "heads" to tunes, or simple lyrics. The album has LOTS of great soloing from the likes of Lee Morgan, Woody Shaw, and Bennie Maupin. The vocals are wierd (or at least some people think they are), but they'll grow on you over time (or at least they finally grew on me). Try to think of the vocals as being just other instruments.

FYI, both "Grass Roots" and "Lift Every Voice" have extra sessions on their Conn release on CD. Each disc is well over an hour long (70+ minutes each), and the extra sessions are absolutely as good as the main session originally released back in the day.

That's it as far as Andrew Hill titles that are (or were ever) on CD, as far as things similar to "Passing Ships". There are a couple titles that have only been released on LP ("Dance With Death" and half of the double-LP "One For One") which are also somewhat similar to "Passing Ships", but they are probably somewhat more difficult to locate, though many of us here on the board have then on CDR. (Neither has been released on CD anywhere, not even in Japan.)

[Jim Alfredson]

Rooster don't tell me you don't have a decent stereo at home. That's not right.

[couw]

Rooster don't tell me you don't have a decent stereo at home. That's not right.

Yeah man. What are you doing anyhow? Running up and down all day, spending time sitting in your car, listening to this stuff and then going back into the house to type your impressions to this board... That's WEIRD man! :rsly:

[Rooster_Ties]

Rooster don't tell me you don't have a decent stereo at home.   That's not right.

Yeah man. What are you doing anyhow? Running up and down all day, spending time sitting in your car, listening to this stuff and then going back into the house to type your impressions to this board... That's WEIRD man! :rsly:

I do have a half-way decent bookshelf system in the bedroom. And another bookshelf system on the first floor (two-floor house), but it isn't hooked up right now as we're in the process of painting/remodeling. Yesterday I just happened to give a first listen on the PC, so I could type my thoughts about the music as I was listening to it. (And I had some errands to run, so I wasn't in the car specifically to listen on a better stereo.) But, all that said - I've always put whatever extra cash I had into more music (recordings), as opposed to springing for an expensive system.

All that said, I was just listening to "Passing Ships" again on the better system in the bedroom a few minutes ago - and lovin' every minute of it!!!! Man, what a great disc.

Edited October 9, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Peter Johnson]

All that said, I was just listening to "Passing Ships" again on the better system in the bedroom a few minutes ago

Wow Rooster, I've never thought of Andrew Hill as a good "quiet storm" selection, if you know what I'm sayin'!

[JSngry]

I wouldn't consider myself an Andrew Hill fan. Although prior to Passing Ships my only exposure to Hill was Point of Departure.

I am really enjoying Passing Ships, especially the title track. What would else should I be checking out? (more like PS and less like PoD).

Besides Rooster's recs, try finding Hill's two "new Blue Note" releases - ETERNAL SPIRIT & BUT NOT FAREWELL. They're pretty straight-ahead, and not at all "foreboding" or whatever adjective you may or may not choose to use about Hill's earlier BN work. The same can very much be said of SHADES on Soul Note, actually on of Hill's best records, period. Plenty of meat, yet easily digested.

These sides might require a little effort to locate, especially SHADES, but I think it'll be worth the effort.

[John Tapscott]

Interestingly, I'm having a tiny bit of trouble figuring out who's who on the trumpet solos (on my very first listen, mind you), though I've heard a few that I was pretty certain whether it was Woody or Dizzy.  I'm sure I'll figure them out soon enough.

I haven't heard this disc, yet, but am really looking forward to it. I've got to say however, that it REALLY bugs me when there are two of the same instrument on a date and the liner don't tell who's soloing when. This REALLY, REALLY bugs me. Even if they would say left channel/ right channel it would be enough. I'm really surprised that Cuscuna would let this slip through. For what they're charging for the Conn's, they should give us this information. I was listening to Ike Quebec's Congo Lament Lp the other day and Michael does a great job in giving the solo order and telling when it's Quebec and when it's Turrentine.

[DrJ]

Big second for SHADES as an initial entry into Hill's music. A superb album and ear friendly for the uninitiated.

Way harder to find, but if you see it you might also consider BLUE BLACK (East Wind, going to have to go Japanese import for this) as a nice entry point. Has many of the same merits as SHADES, although perhaps not quite as successful.

[Eric]

I received this yesterday and had a chance to listen to it a bit in the car. I don't have a hell of a lot to add to the above, except to say that I really do enjoy what I've heard so far. I like the tunes and the accents that are played behind the solos.

Oddly, one of the tracks sounds very familiar - can't remember which one - have any of these been recorded before. Another oddball impression - parts of it - maybe just the overall feel - remind me of "Mode for Joe".

It is simply stunning to me that this thing sat for so long, although Cuscuna's explaination of why makes sense (lousy mix on the first tapes he heard).

Kudos to BN and AH for putting this out!!!

Eric

[relyles]

I am really enjoying Passing Ships, especially the title track. What would else should I be checking out? (more like PS and less like PoD).

I think one of the interesting things about Hill is that although his music is very personal and easily recognizable as "Andrew Hill", there is nonetheless a variety in his recordings to the point that IMO it is hard to say that two recordings are necessarily in the same style. Often it is the changes in the instrumentation that creates the different sound. Other times there is a difference in the compositions. I suppose that is why the slightly funky Hill to be found on recordings like Grass Roots is not the same as a recording like Judgment. I am not sure that there is anything else in Hill's recorded output that is similar to Passing Ships in its use of a larger ensemble with an emphasis on the arrangements. Even his recent big band recording is not similar to me. So maybe it would be helpful if you could describe exactly what it is about Point of Departure that does not appeal to you and what it is about Passing Ships that you like?

With that said we should keep in mind that Hill is still alive, his artistry has continued to evolve in the past thirty years and he has made some very worthwhile recordings that are not on Blue Note. That is my preamble to say that an excellent entry point to Hill is Shades the 1986 date on Soul Note with Clifford Jordan, Rufus Reid and Ben Riley. For me that recording is as satisfying as anything Hill recorded on Blue Note. It may not be as ground breaking or adventurous, but I think the trio tracks on that recording are some of the best Hill piano playing on record and the recording as a whole features some of Hill's best and at the same time most approachable compositions. If all you ever heard was a recording like Point of Departure you may not expect Hill to be as compatible with relatively "straight" players like Jordan, Reid and Riley, but I can not recommend this recording enough. It is the first Andrew Hill recording I ever heard and the one that motivated me to go back and check out the Blue Note stuff. And oh yeah, Jordan sounds great too.