Sports: 2008 NBA Playoffs

[Aggie87]

Boy the Lakers sure tried to choke. I'm not really feeling too sorry for the Spurs on that last call though, they had half the Laker team in foul trouble most of the game on ticky-tack calls.

I agree about the ticky tack fouls. The officiating in this game was terrible overall.

I still think the Lakers got the benefit of a number of calls at the end. Sportscenter emphasized that Kobe travelled on the Lakers' last possession, which should have given the Spurs the ball with about 15 seconds left. Odom also fouled Parker on the play where he goaltended, but no call. And the non-call on Fisher's foul.

Even if Barry wasn't in the act of shooting at the time of that foul (for 3 free throws), he should have been given two free throws with a chance to tie the game. If the roles had been completely reversed, and that was Kobe that got fouled by Bowen the same way with 2 seconds left, it's a guarantee that Kobe goes to the free throw line.

[Noj]

Barry should have been given two free throws. From the officials' standpoint, they rarely blow the whistle to decide games at the line. If Barry had shot the ball on Fisher's contact, instead of putting the ball on the floor, he would have gone to the line. Instead, he dribbled and was still able to get the shot off. What if he made the shot, but the officials had whistled it dead?

Not sure if Kobe would have gone to the line last night with Bowen fouling him, seeing as Kobe didn't shoot a single free throw all game.

[BruceW]

Anybody remember the first year Michael retired, scenario Bulls vs. Knicks in Conference Finals, last game, and Pippen was called for a real ticky tac "touch" foul (after shot released) on the 3 point shot by the Knicks at the buzzer. Knicks make freethrows and win the game and series.

:bwallace2:

Unless a team just plain kicks the snot out of its opponent, the NBA will get the teams it wants in the Finals.

[paul secor]

Fisher committed the foul and Barry should have been given two free throws. If I were a Spurs fan, I'd be pissed.

That said, maybe San Antone should look back on Robert Horry's cheap shot foul on Steve Nash in the semis last year, and see last night's non call as the chickens coming home to roost.

Bruce W. - I remember that play well. I was rooting for the Bulls and remember being ticked off. However, I do feel that that call was an aberration. Can't recall many (any?) other important playoff games ending that way.

[Aggie87]

Fisher committed the foul and Barry should have been given two free throws. If I were a Spurs fan, I'd be pissed.

That said, maybe San Antone should look back on Robert Horry's cheap shot foul on Steve Nash in the semis last year, and see last night's non call as the chickens coming home to roost.

I agree Horry's foul last year was a cheap shot. And I don't think the resulting suspensions were deserved, either. But if we keep using this "karma" thing to use prior events to justify what happens now, then maybe Crawford was willfully ignoring Fisher's foul on Barry, because of his suspension last year. And if that's the case, then the game isn't being determined by the players, which sucks.

In a better and more "fair" outcome, I'd have liked Barry to have gone to the foul line, made the two free throws, and then let the teams decide the outcome of the game in overtime.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Aggie87

[BruceW]

Fisher committed the foul and Barry should have been given two free throws. If I were a Spurs fan, I'd be pissed.

That said, maybe San Antone should look back on Robert Horry's cheap shot foul on Steve Nash in the semis last year, and see last night's non call as the chickens coming home to roost.

Bruce W. - I remember that play well. I was rooting for the Bulls and remember being ticked off. However, I do feel that that call was an aberration. Can't recall many (any?) other important playoff games ending that way.

Well the point was how cheap the foul was on Pippen as opposed to how obvious the foul was on Fisher. Point being; outcomes determined by refs with agendas; the ref who called the foul on Pippen was known to hate the Bulls (as stated by commentators at the time also). And ref who did not call foul on Lakers is known to dislike Spurs.

Fisher committed the foul and Barry should have been given two free throws. If I were a Spurs fan, I'd be pissed.

That said, maybe San Antone should look back on Robert Horry's cheap shot foul on Steve Nash in the semis last year, and see last night's non call as the chickens coming home to roost.

... then maybe Crawford was willfully ignoring Fisher's foul on Barry, because of his suspension last year. And if that's the case, then the game isn't being determined by the players, which sucks.

agreed and it is looking bad for NBA objectivity, isn't it?

In a better and more "fair" outcome, I'd have liked Barry to have gone to the foul line, made the two free throws, and then let the teams decide the outcome of the game in overtime.

that seems to have been the fair call. And what about Kobe trying his best not to answer the question. It was unfair to ask him that but he flat out lied and you could see it on his face. I don't think he had any other choice though.

[Noj]

In the post-game, Reggie Miller made several comments about how Barry needed to "sell the foul," and no one would understand how this call works more than Reggie. In watching the replay, Barry has Fisher in the air. All he needs to do is go into his shot immediately, Fisher lands on him while he's shooting, and he would go to the line to shoot three. Instead, Barry leans forward and takes a dribble, and makes room to take a shot. Now, the right call is the foul is on the floor, Barry goes to the line to shoot two. However, with the clock winding down, the officials are always hesitant to make that call because they do not want to decide the outcome of the game at the free throw line. What if Barry's ensuing shot, which would have been waved off had they blown the whistle, gone in? The refs had a split second to decide whether or not to blow the whistle and have it be a dead ball, or let the ensuing shot go up. 9 times out of 10 they let the shot go up.

Personally, I'm with Phil Jackson--Fisher's previous shot hit the rim before bouncing off Horry's leg out of bounds, and the Lakers should have had a fresh 24 second clock with 5 seconds left. This would have put the Spurs in a position to either get a steal on the inbounds or foul. Instead, Kobe had two seconds to force up a fall-away prayer that wasn't answered. Spurs rebound, get timeout, and the play with Brent Barry happens. One missed call deserves another.

[Aggie87]

However, with the clock winding down, the officials are always hesitant to make that call because they do not want to decide the outcome of the

game at the free throw line.

But what they're doing is deciding the outcome of the game by not making the right call.

Personally, I'm with Phil Jackson--Fisher's previous shot hit the rim before bouncing off Horry's leg out of bounds, and the Lakers should have had a fresh 24 second clock with 5 seconds left. This would have put the Spurs in a position to either get a steal on the inbounds or foul.

Another missed call by the refs.

One missed call deserves another.

That's the old 'two wrongs make a right' thing. Poor officiating determined the final outcome of this game, either way, IMO. That's not right.

I think I'd be better at letting this go if it were Game 1 of the series, instead of Game 4, with the outcome being a 3-1 series (and basically over), versus a 2-2 series, and deadlocked.

Edited May 28, 2008 by Aggie87

[Noj]

If there's a team that can come back from being down 1-3, it's the Spurs. They're a grind-it-out, defensive team.

Anyway, it's added bad blood between the two teams because there won't be a consensus. When Ginobili hit that three, then Kobe stupidly forced up and missed that layup leading to Parker's breakaway, I had flashes of karma from Fisher's 0.4 second shot coming back to haunt the Lakers. I thought, "they're about to get us back for that one. It's their turn."

[BruceW]

... Personally, I'm with Phil Jackson--Fisher's previous shot hit the rim before bouncing off Horry's leg out of bounds, and the Lakers should have had a fresh 24 second clock with 5 seconds left. This would have put the Spurs in a position to either get a steal on the inbounds or foul. Instead, Kobe had two seconds to force up a fall-away prayer that wasn't answered. Spurs rebound, get timeout, and the play with Brent Barry happens. One missed call deserves another.

Well I dunno, I never saw the ball hit the rim, but if it did, then you are right but I thought it missed the rim and therefore, the call was correct.

Anyway, 2 seconds is a lot of time for the great Kobe. No excuse there.

[Noj]

To be honest, as far as I'm concerned the game was only close because of bad calls by the refs against the Lakers and non-calls for the Spurs. Duncan waltzing down the lane with like four steps for a dunk, Duncan hacking all over the place and not getting called for it, Kobe getting fouled by Bowen on at least three shots without calls (Kobe=zero free throw attempts), Odom and Fisher getting quick ticky-tack calls and riding the pine...but I'm a Laker fan. If I were a Spurs fan, I'd be bellyaching about that non-call for years to come.

[paul secor]

Well the point was how cheap the foul was on Pippen as opposed to how obvious the foul was on Fisher. Point being; outcomes determined by refs with agendas; the ref who called the foul on Pippen was known to hate the Bulls (as stated by commentators at the time also). And ref who did not call foul on Lakers is known to dislike Spurs.

You're right - Fisher's foul was more obvious.

I would hope that the refs wouldn't be that biased, but who knows?

I am surprised that the NBA would have Joey Crawford officiate in a Spurs playoff game - especially after the flap that Tim Donaghy's lawyer has made in the press lately. Whether any of that is true or not, one would think that the NBA would want to avoid any hint of favoritism by its referees.

You make good points, but I do realize that you're a Detrite fan who wants the Western final to go seven games.

[BruceW]

Heyy,

That's Detroit, not Detrite

[Soulstation1]

Why didn't Barry shoot the ball when Fisher fouled him?

Barry shoulda let it go on contact

[Aggie87]

Why didn't Barry shoot the ball when Fisher fouled him?

Barry shoulda let it go on contact

I think most of us would agree with that. So you go from "he should be shooting 2 free throws to tie it" to "he should be shooting 3 free throws, with a chance to win it".

Edited May 28, 2008 by Aggie87

[Soulstation1]

Crawford and special guest referee Soulstation1 will ref game 5 in the staples center

[Patrick]

anyone found Ray Allen yet?

Just wonderin'.

[paul secor]

Crawford and special guest referee Soulstation1 will ref game 5 in the staples center

[Aggie87]

They just announced during tonight's game that the NBA had reviewed last night's game, and said that a foul should have been called at the end of the game, with 2 free throws.

[BruceW]

I'm sure the Spurs are happy, huh!! Like it is going to help them now.

[Soulstation1]

lakers gotta take care of business tonight

[Soulstation1]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3417029

holy shit

doug collins returns to coach Chicago

[Chalupa]

NBA - Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3416579

Detroit's Rasheed Wallace, a player who has 15 technicals this season and has been suspended in the past for being over the limit for technicals, gave his opinion of floppers to ESPN after the Pistons' 106-102 loss to the Boston Celtics in Game 5 of the Eastern Conference finals on Wednesday.

"All that bull[expletive]-ass calls they had out there. With Mike [Callahan] and Kenny [Mauer] -- you've all seen that [expletive]," Wallace said. "You saw them calls. The cats are flopping all over the floor and they're calling that [expletive]. That [expletive] ain't basketball out there. It's all [expletive] entertainment. You all should know that [expletive]. It's all [expletive] entertainment."

Rasheed Wallace, pride of North Philly. Keepin' it real

[BruceW]

Tell em Sheed!

[Jim Alfredson]

That was a heartbreaking game. Pistons should've won that one; blatant no-calls (those two drives to the basket by Chauncey where he was hammered) and lame ticky-tack fouls at the end helped Boston big-time. There was absolutely no consistency with the calls at all. For instance, that flagrant on PJ Brown was crap, but if they call that, how can they not call it a flagrant when Pierce damn near took Chauncey's head off on a drive?

I think the Pistons will win Game 6. Game 7 is anybody's game at this point.

I will say this: If the Celtics play another fourth quarter like they did last night, they will not win a championship.