Niko Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) hi, thought i'd open another john patton thread inbetween trying to gather his leader dates (one of the rare instances where i wish it was 1997 again) i thought i'd get some sideman stuff as well, actually i already started this i'm wondering not so much about the stuff with lou donaldson (i only have natural soul which doesn't quite blow me away guess i'll need more time, will get the other 4 albums eventually) and the stuff with grant green (well it's actually just two albums not counting iron city which have been discussed here quite a bit) but the other stuff from the sixties and seventies most of which has not been discussed here so much (and mostly with somewhat mixed feelings)... to get to the actual question: are any of these essential (or very good)? (some almost impossible to find, others, like the Clifford Jordan or the Johnny Griffin available cheaply at present) (i know the last four, and the griffin and jordan have patton only on some tracks) which is the first to get? Don Wilkerson - Shoutin George Braith - The Laughing Soul Red Holloway - The Burner (on the Legends of Acid Jazz RH) Clifford Jordan - Soul Fountain Grassella Oliphant - The Grass is Greener (actually this is already on it's way here) Johnny Griffin & Matthew Gee - Soul Groove Harold Vick - Steppin' Out Johnny Lytle - Everything Must Change Jimmy Ponder - Mean Streets. No Bridges and for completeness Jimmy Ponder - Jump (i have it, nice but not essential i'd say; easily worth it's current price) Richard Pierson – Opening Statement John Zorn - The Big Gundown John Zorn - Spillane Makigami Koichi - Koroshi No Blues thanks for any input! Edited April 3, 2008 by Niko Quote
Dan Gould Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Braith was never my cup of tea but if you feel differently, I'd get that. Otherwise, the Wilkerson and Vick would top my personal ordering of the remainder, with the Holloway, Griff and Jordan right behind. Quote
kh1958 Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Zorn's Spillane is essential, not for John Patton, but rather for the long piece featuring Albert Collins. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Braith was never my cup of tea but if you feel differently, I'd get that. Otherwise, the Wilkerson and Vick would top my personal ordering of the remainder, with the Holloway, Griff and Jordan right behind. I have to agree with two caveats. I love Braith and this is REALLY quirky. If youre into Braith, this goes to #1. The Clifford Jordan I've never heard. I also didn't know it was easily available. Where has it been reissued. please? MG Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Makigami Koichi - Koroshi No Blues Never heard of this!!!! Anyone know anything about it? MG Quote
Aggie87 Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Makigami Koichi - Koroshi No Blues Never heard of this!!!! Anyone know anything about it? MG I wasn't aware of it either. According to this, it's a John Zorn produced date, and Patton appears on one track, with Marc Ribot, Jeff Hirshfeld, and Koichi. Quote
Niko Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) the jordan was reissued from wounded bird, here it is from amazon.co.uk (starting at 4 pounds) for instance: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Soul-Fountain-Clif...8467&sr=8-1 this japanese cd i found browsing a john zorn discography, collected what i found out about it here (post 26): http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...=1212&st=15 (patton just on one track) thanks for your help so far, guess i'll start with jordan and wilkerson... edit: essentially in that old thread i just gave the same link erik gave... no need to dig it out again... Edited April 3, 2008 by Niko Quote
John L Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 I just picked up the Clifford Jordan not long ago, and I like it: very short but sweet. From that list, I would grab the Harold Vick first. Quote
Shawn Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 The Vick, Johnny Griffin & Oliphant discs would be my primary choices. But then again it's Patton...so you HAVE to own everything. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Thanks folks - putting that Jordan into an Amazon UK order later today. MG Quote
Niko Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Posted April 3, 2008 ordered the griffin and jordan because they probably won't stay below 5 Euro for long... vick is clearly above my price range at present (for that money i could get the patton select - i should get it...), japanese cds of braith and wilkerson can at the moment be found at decent prices so maybe they will follow soon... (no idea whether i like braith, as i have never heard him - i guess it's not simply if you like kirk you'll like braith, too) thanks again! Quote
Soul Stream Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) I'd say that covers it for the most part. John wasn't really a "sideman" too much on record after he became a leader. I'd have to say Harold Vick's "Steppin' Out" is about as good a Patton LP as anything from that era. If you don't have it, get that one FOR SURE. Also, Don Wilkerson's "Shoutin'" is a MUST! But...if you don't dig The Natural Soul...you might not like either one of these. Edited April 3, 2008 by Soul Stream Quote
Peter Friedman Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 In my view, the Harold Vick is the cream of the crop among those you listed. Most of the others didn't do much for me. Quote
crabgrass Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 I don't know if you can call them "sideman" dates... but Patton played live with Zorn on occasion... "Big" John Patton & John Zorn w/ James "Blood" Ulmer & Bobby Previte August 28, 1988 Saalfelden, Austria John Patton - Hammond B3 organ John Zorn - alto sax James 'Blood' Ulmer - guitar Bobby Previte - drums --- John Zorn's Emergency 1989 The Knitting Factory New York, NY John Patton - Hammond B3 organ John Zorn - alto saxophone Marc Ribot - guitar Jeff Hirschfield - drums --- Zornfest Music of Big John Patton Thursday, September 9, 1993 The Knitting Factory, NYC John Patton - B3 organ John Zorn - alto sax Ed Cherry - guitar Eddie Gladden - drums Lawrence Killian - congas ------ Big John Patton 23 November 1995 CBGB's 313 Gallery New York City, NY, USA John Patton - B3 organ John Zorn - alto sax Ed Cherry - guitar Kenny Wollsen - drums --- Special Olympians Saalfelden Jazz Festival Saalfelden, Austria August 28, 1999 John Zorn - alto sax John Patton - B3 organ James 'Blood' Ulmer - guitar Bobby Previte - drums Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 Were any of those Zorn gigs recorded? MG Quote
crabgrass Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) Were any of those Zorn gigs recorded? MG Yeah, those are the ones I have recordings of. The early one with Ulmer goes by the name "The Way I Feel". They are all ROIOs as far as I know. A little research came up with this, which discusses these recordings... http://johnpatton.blogspot.com/2007/03/big...atton-live.html Edited April 4, 2008 by crabgrass Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 Were any of those Zorn gigs recorded? MG Yeah, those are the ones I have recordings of. The early one with Ulmer goes by the name "The Way I Feel". They are all ROIOs as far as I know. A little research came up with this, which discusses these recordings... http://johnpatton.blogspot.com/2007/03/big...atton-live.html Ah yes, that looks like Andy Bleaden's blog. I have the Smoke and Elbo Room sessions. What does ROIO stand for? MG Quote
crabgrass Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 What does ROIO stand for? MG Recordings Of Indeterminate Origins Quote
king ubu Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 ordered the griffin and jordan because they probably won't stay below 5 Euro for long... vick is clearly above my price range at present (for that money i could get the patton select - i should get it...), japanese cds of braith and wilkerson can at the moment be found at decent prices so maybe they will follow soon... (no idea whether i like braith, as i have never heard him - i guess it's not simply if you like kirk you'll like braith, too) thanks again! As for Braith and Wilkerson, why not try your luck in finding the Connoisseurs? Both 3 albums on 2 CDs, both nice packages, to me both not essential in any way, but pretty enjoyable (the Wilkerson somewhat less). The Vick is terrific, that's for sure! The others I'm not familiar with (except for The Big Gundown, but that's not a Patton sideman album either... Spillane I never heard, but again my curiosity is piqued here!) Let me know what you think of the Jordan and the Griffin (isn't the Griffin also on a Collectables CD? One of those where on the cover you get no information at all, rather dubious-looking - which is why I never cared to check it up on the internet so far...) Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 What does ROIO stand for? MG Recordings Of Indeterminate Origins Oh, I should have guessed. Thought it was a tech term Thanks. MG Quote
Shawn Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 ....the Griffin (isn't the Griffin also on a Collectables CD? One of those where on the cover you get no information at all, rather dubious-looking - which is why I never cared to check it up on the internet so far...) It is on Collectables but it has all the personnel information, original liner notes, etc. For those interested, Patton only plays on 3 tracks (Oh Gee, Twist City & Renee), the other tracks are Hank Jones either on piano or organ. Quote
king ubu Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 ....the Griffin (isn't the Griffin also on a Collectables CD? One of those where on the cover you get no information at all, rather dubious-looking - which is why I never cared to check it up on the internet so far...) It is on Collectables but it has all the personnel information, original liner notes, etc. For those interested, Patton only plays on 3 tracks (Oh Gee, Twist City & Renee), the other tracks are Hank Jones either on piano or organ. Thanks! Sounds good enough to this fan of Griffin's! I only saw sealed copys, I think... will look for this someday. Quote
Niko Posted April 4, 2008 Author Report Posted April 4, 2008 ordered the griffin and jordan because they probably won't stay below 5 Euro for long... vick is clearly above my price range at present (for that money i could get the patton select - i should get it...), japanese cds of braith and wilkerson can at the moment be found at decent prices so maybe they will follow soon... (no idea whether i like braith, as i have never heard him - i guess it's not simply if you like kirk you'll like braith, too) thanks again! As for Braith and Wilkerson, why not try your luck in finding the Connoisseurs? Both 3 albums on 2 CDs, both nice packages, to me both not essential in any way, but pretty enjoyable (the Wilkerson somewhat less). The Vick is terrific, that's for sure! The others I'm not familiar with (except for The Big Gundown, but that's not a Patton sideman album either... Spillane I never heard, but again my curiosity is piqued here!) Let me know what you think of the Jordan and the Griffin (isn't the Griffin also on a Collectables CD? One of those where on the cover you get no information at all, rather dubious-looking - which is why I never cared to check it up on the internet so far...) the wilkerson connoiseur i haven't seen anywhere below like 50 Euro, so i guess chances of finding three japanese cds at a lower price are pretty good if i take my time... the braith connoiseur is more difficult a decision as it's about the same price as the laughing soul (or blue john, about 15 Euro)... so three albums with Billy Gardner (who i only know (and really like) as the pianist of that Dave Bailey/Grant Green thing with Frank Haynes... ) against one with Patton... will keep you informed on griffin and jordan... Quote
bertrand Posted April 4, 2008 Report Posted April 4, 2008 I didn't know anything about the Richard Pierson date. Does anyone have any more info? Pierson has been drumming with Grachan Moncur III for quite a few years now. Bertrand. Quote
Niko Posted April 4, 2008 Author Report Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) I didn't know anything about the Richard Pierson date. Does anyone have any more info? Pierson has been drumming with Grachan Moncur III for quite a few years now. Bertrand. this ebay listing has discograohical info: http://cgi.ebay.de/Opening-Statement-Richa...1QQcmdZViewItem edit, to make sure we don't lose this info Opening Statement - Richard Pierson, 1997 1 Jitterbug Waltz #2 3:40 2 Stay One Step Ahead 5:30 3 Straighten Up And Fly Right 3:05 4 My Favorite Things 6:21 5 Fun Funk #5 4:53 6 In Your Own Sweet Way 5:37 7 In A Sentimental Mood 5:02 8 Bruce Edwards' Blues 5:06 9 Ain't Necessarily So 4:42 10 Half Way Home 3:41 Joe Ford - Soprano and Alto Saxophone, Eli Yamin - Piano, Larry Corbin - Guitar (1), Peter Matthews - Bass, Carlos Wormley - Percussion, Richard Pierson - Drums Radam Schwartz - Organ (2,5,7), Bruce Edwards - Guitar, Bill Saxton - Tenor Saxophone, Lawrence Killian - Percussion (2,5), Kim Celeste - Vocals (3), Marion Cowings - Vocals (3), Corky Caldwell - Piano (3,8) John Ore - Bass (3,8), Geary Moore - Guitar (4,9), Big John Patton - Organ (4,9,10), Marty Fogel - Tenor Saxophone (4,9,10), Dwight West - Vocals (9), Ted Stilles - Guitar The Jazz Label Ltd, 1997 Richard Pierson another edit to add: i am not pretending that i completely understand the discographical info but i wouldn't expect BJP playing on more than three tracks... Edited April 4, 2008 by Niko Quote
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.