Black Jazz & Tribe Records

[clifford_thornton]

Well, I'll look up Doug & Jean Carn and see if maybe that first one is from another album NOT on Black Jazz...? And will look up that Crusaders tune too.

Thanks again!

Don't think there is such a thing as a Doug/Jean Carn album not on Black Jazz. Maybe a Jean Carn solo album. But it sounds like Doug and Jean Carn, Doug's musical/spiritual approach. "The Freedom Sounds" is on any early Jazz Crusaders best of. It and their "Young Rabbits" from the same period (early 60's) are classic.

There is also a Doug Carn on Savoy - his first as a leader, IIRC. Very hard to find.

[felser]

Well, I'll look up Doug & Jean Carn and see if maybe that first one is from another album NOT on Black Jazz...? And will look up that Crusaders tune too.

Thanks again!

Don't think there is such a thing as a Doug/Jean Carn album not on Black Jazz. Maybe a Jean Carn solo album. But it sounds like Doug and Jean Carn, Doug's musical/spiritual approach. "The Freedom Sounds" is on any early Jazz Crusaders best of. It and their "Young Rabbits" from the same period (early 60's) are classic.

There is also a Doug Carn on Savoy - his first as a leader, IIRC. Very hard to find.

The Savoy is a P/B/D trio session according to discographies, no Jean. I've never heard it.

[JSngry]

I took a quick listen. I'd also have guessed the first tune was Doug & Jean Carn.

Definitely Jean Carn singing. I'll see if I can find the tune on the Dough & Jean Carn CD's over the weekend if I get a chance. Those Carn CD's on Black Jazz are four great CD's by the way.

I really want to know what that tune is!

[webbcity]

I took a quick listen. I'd also have guessed the first tune was Doug & Jean Carn.

Definitely Jean Carn singing. I'll see if I can find the tune on the Dough & Jean Carn CD's over the weekend if I get a chance. Those Carn CD's on Black Jazz are four great CD's by the way.

I really want to know what that tune is!

You & me both!

Hey, I have another unrelated question, but still on-topic for the thread (since it is Black Jazz AND Tribe Records)...

Does anyone here have the original vinyl of the Ranelin/Harrison album "A Message From The Tribe"? Man...I just discovered that record and it is AMAZING. But the sound quality on the two available CDs (Scorpio Music and P-Vine) is absolutely horrendous. I'm wondering whether it's worth tracking down the original LP for the $500 or so it goes for (!!!).

[JSngry]

I took a quick listen. I'd also have guessed the first tune was Doug & Jean Carn.

Definitely Jean Carn singing. I'll see if I can find the tune on the Dough & Jean Carn CD's over the weekend if I get a chance. Those Carn CD's on Black Jazz are four great CD's by the way.

I really want to know what that tune is!

You & me both!

Hey, I have another unrelated question, but still on-topic for the thread (since it is Black Jazz AND Tribe Records)...

Does anyone here have the original vinyl of the Ranelin/Harrison album "A Message From The Tribe"? Man...I just discovered that record and it is AMAZING. But the sound quality on the two available CDs (Scorpio Music and P-Vine) is absolutely horrendous. I'm wondering whether it's worth tracking down the original LP for the $500 or so it goes for (!!!).

Turns out that that tune is Dee Dee Bridgewater with Norman Connors, "Holy Waters" from Love From The Sun. Thanks to Rod (aka rostasi) for taking the blinders outta my ears...

As for the Tribe stuff, avery Tribe LP I've got has been like that, realy echo-y, distant sound. I think the CDs do the best they can.

The cover art, though, is worth having, if you wanna go there...

[webbcity]

Turns out that that tune is Dee Dee Bridgewater with Norman Connors, "Holy Waters" from Love From The Sun. Thanks to Rod (aka rostasi) for taking the blinders outta my ears...

Oh man...awesome! Thanks for sharing the info. That's so funny, I don't know any Dee Dee Bridgewater at all but for some reason she popped up on my radar screen last week and I thought to myself I gotta check her out... Now I definitely do.

As for the Tribe stuff, avery Tribe LP I've got has been like that, realy echo-y, distant sound. I think the CDs do the best they can.

The cover art, though, is worth having, if you wanna go there...

It's actually not the echo-y distant sound that bothers me at all...I can hear that and I dig it. What they did to the CDs was apply way too much noise reduction-- and I mean A LOT...I can't always detect NR but in this case they absolutely butchered it. It sounds like some guy got his new wav editor program and set the noise reducer to KILL. It not only took out every last bit of hiss, it took a good chunk of music with it. The cymbals sound like MP3 compression gone horribly wrong if you know what I mean.

I don't know if I'm supposed to say this here, but I would love to get even a burnt CD of the LP if someone were willing to do that. This album is so friggin good I just gotta hear it the way it's supposed to sound.

[ghost of miles]

Posters in this thread might want to track down Wax Poetics #28, which has an interview with Phil Ranelin (and is preceded by an interview with drummer Doug Hammond). WP may have done another, full-blown piece on Tribe since then...I'll have to check my back issues, which are mostly at the office right now. The Ranelin piece (published in spring 2008) also alludes to Detroit's "techno auteur and electronic jazz visionary Carl Craig" having recently brought the original Tribe members together for a studio reunion. Anybody hear it? I think it actually did come out.

EDIT: found the WaxPoetics article on Tribe online--it comes from issue #40:

Community Unity

Here's a short 2009 piece about the album, Tribe Rebirth

Tribe Rebirth CD listing on Amazon

Edited June 11, 2010 by ghost of miles

[felser]

I took a quick listen. I'd also have guessed the first tune was Doug & Jean Carn.

Definitely Jean Carn singing. I'll see if I can find the tune on the Dough & Jean Carn CD's over the weekend if I get a chance. Those Carn CD's on Black Jazz are four great CD's by the way.

I really want to know what that tune is!

You & me both!

Hey, I have another unrelated question, but still on-topic for the thread (since it is Black Jazz AND Tribe Records)...

Does anyone here have the original vinyl of the Ranelin/Harrison album "A Message From The Tribe"? Man...I just discovered that record and it is AMAZING. But the sound quality on the two available CDs (Scorpio Music and P-Vine) is absolutely horrendous. I'm wondering whether it's worth tracking down the original LP for the $500 or so it goes for (!!!).

Turns out that that tune is Dee Dee Bridgewater with Norman Connors, "Holy Waters" from Love From The Sun. Thanks to Rod (aka rostasi) for taking the blinders outta my ears...

As for the Tribe stuff, avery Tribe LP I've got has been like that, realy echo-y, distant sound. I think the CDs do the best they can.

The cover art, though, is worth having, if you wanna go there...

Re: Bridgewater/Carn. Not the first time I've gotten their vocals from that era confused. Amazing exercise here on how context suggests our perception of reality (Black Jazz site, has to be Carn). Re: Tribe records. I had several back in the day, courtesy of the Houston Hall Records dollar bin at Penn, and they all sounded horrible as far as recording/vinyl quality. The one I remember really liking musically was the Marcus Belgrave. Musically, they sound more rewarding to me now than they did then (likely a function of 55 years old, 37 years of listening to this music as opposed to 21 years old, 3 years listening).

[webbcity]

Just a quick tip for those seeking out the Black Jazz CDs...I see that some of them are now fetching Big $$$ since they are no longer available from the Black Jazz site, but most if not all are available new through HMV Japan and if you buy a bunch of them it's worth the shipping. In fact, I just bought The Awakening's "Hear, Sense, and Feel" and they had it on special for 1000 yen (about 11 bucks + shipping). Most of the others are more like $22 + shipping. But Doug Carn's "Revelation" is $53 on Amazon vs. the ~$22 I paid for it.

[webbcity]

Got another question here about the Ranelin/Harrison record "A Message from the Tribe"...does anyone here have the current LP reissue of this? I have been assuming that it sounds the same as the CD version(s) but maybe I'm wrong about that. Anybody have this?

[Teasing the Korean]

Can anyone tell me about the sound quality of either the CD or vinyl reissue(s) of the Doug Hammond and David Durrah "Reflections in the Sea of Nurnen?" I find that vinyl reissues of recent dacades have been dodgy. Do you know if either is from the master tapes or from an inferior source? The mp3 album sounds like it's sourced from vinyl.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Teasing the Korean

[Late]

Of the four Black Jazz compilations that Snow Dog put out around 2013 (the others were by Gilles Peterson, DJ Muro, and DJ Mitsu), this one, in my opinion, is the best. Parrish's mix really works, and the way he overlaps some of the tracks is pretty artistic. This set initially had two discs, one mixed and one unmixed, but now it seems that only the mixed version is available for sale. Don't worry though — I actually think it's the better one of the two. Three Awakening tunes in a row!

If you find this disc for a decent price, carpe! It clocks in at just over 77 minutes.

[Rabshakeh]

I came across this old thread today whilst looking for something else. It was funny how comparatively undiscovered the Black Jazz catalogue was only a few years ago. These days, even pretty tatty LPs are going for crazy prices. 

[dougcrates]

https://www.vinylmeplease.com/products/anthology-the-story-of-tribe-records?variant=32913585111130

[Rooster_Ties]

4 minutes ago, dougcrates said:

https://www.vinylmeplease.com/products/anthology-the-story-of-tribe-records?variant=32913585111130

Wendell Harrison - Farewell to the Welfare (Unreleased, 1975)

   

[clifford_thornton]

I've never really gotten into most Tribe stuff but that boxed set is kinda cool (even if it's missing two Tribe releases).

[felser]

10 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

I've never really gotten into most Tribe stuff but that boxed set is kinda cool (even if it's missing two Tribe releases).

I hear you, but "Kinda cool" isn't gonna justify a $299 price tag.  I agree with you on never really getting into the label.  Great historical/cultural interest, but musically not so much.  I think the Marcus Belgrave is probably best of breed of what I've heard (which is probably close to the entire catalog if not all of it).

[Dub Modal]

Pure Pleasure has been reissuing some of these Tribe records for the past couple of years and been doing a good job of it. So that's a more affordable option other than the VMP box. 

[clifford_thornton]

49 minutes ago, felser said:

I hear you, but "Kinda cool" isn't gonna justify a $299 price tag.  I agree with you on never really getting into the label.  Great historical/cultural interest, but musically not so much.  I think the Marcus Belgrave is probably best of breed of what I've heard (which is probably close to the entire catalog if not all of it).

yeah, agree. The Belgrave was later issued by him on his own Gem Eye label, so I assume he took the masters and that's why the music wasn't included. That one is a very good record.

As for Black Jazz, the only ones that spoke to me were the Calvin Keys and the Henry Franklins, although even then not enough to shell out for nice vinyl copies.

[felser]

4 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

yeah, agree. The Belgrave was later issued by him on his own Gem Eye label, so I assume he took the masters and that's why the music wasn't included. That one is a very good record.

As for Black Jazz, the only ones that spoke to me were the Calvin Keys and the Henry Franklins, although even then not enough to shell out for nice vinyl copies.

I'm a bigger fan than you of Black Jazz, especially the Doug & Jean Carn albums, but also several others.  I have them all except for the Cleveland Eaton and the Gene Russell titles.  Have never heard the Eaton.  The Russell titles are pleasant but nothing meaningful.

[barnaba.siegel]

On 4.12.2020 at 2:11 AM, Rooster_Ties said:

Wendell Harrison - Farewell to the Welfare (Unreleased, 1975)

   

 

Any idea what's here? Apart from the title track, which made on a single as Part 1/Part 2

[barnaba.siegel]

I just got newsletter from Real Gone Music about upcoming 2 releases from Black Music - "Shawn-Neeq" by Calvin Keys (spectacular thing!) and "Spring Rain" by Rudolph Johnson.

They're supposed to be remastered - well, I've got the 2005 P-Vine Japan CD and the sound is distorted. I'm wondering how the'll manage with the quality this time.

Original message:

 

We’re getting a jump on February’s Black History Month celebrations by releasing a couple more new Black Jazz label releases on CD and LP…and yes, we have exclusive vinyl variants on each for our customers (if you already ordered those from us, you’re all set)!

Calvin Keys’ 1971 debut album for the Black Jazz Records label announced the arrival of a new star in the jazz guitar firmament. Keys had spent the ‘60s backing up the crème de la crème of jazz organists—Jimmy Smith, Jimmy McGriff, Jack McDuff, Richard “Groove” Holmes—but for his first record as a leader, he was eager to play with a piano player instead. So he recruited one of the best—Larry Nash, who, besides being a member of the L.A. Express, played with everybody from Eddie Harris to Bill Withers to Etta James. Bassist Lawrence Evans, drummer Bob Braye, and flautist-songwriter Owen Marshall rounded out the group on Shawn-Neeq, which might remind some of Pat Metheny’s early work (Metheny acknowledges Keys as an influence), or Grant Green. But what gives Shawn-Neeq extra depth is that it comes from the heart; as Keys says in Pat Thomas’ liner notes, which feature an interview with the artist: “My thing was, I write about some of the experiences that I’ve had in my life.” Keys has since become a fixture in the Bay Area jazz scene; this is the album that started his journey. Another gem from the celebrated Black Jazz catalog, freshly remastered by Mike Milchner at Sonic Vision and ready to be savored on CD, black vinyl, or clear with heavy black splatter vinyl limited to 200 copies and exclusive for our customers!

Columbus, Ohio’s Rudolph Johnson drew comparisons to John Coltrane during his career; like the jazz legend in his later years, Johnson eschewed drugs or alcohol and spent his time every day either meditating and rehearsing on his horn. You can definitely hear a little bit of Coltrane in Johnson’s playing on Spring Rain, his 1971 debut release for the Black Jazz label, the first of two he recorded for the imprint and the first he recorded as a leader after some sideman work (most notably for organist Jimmy McGriff); his ability to explore the upper registers and overtones of his tenor sax while retaining control is quite striking. Of course, this being a Black Jazz release, along with the bebop sounds of “Sylvia Ann” and the mid-‘60s Blue Note stylings of “Sylvia Ann,” there’s the soul jazz of “Diswa” and the groove funk of “Devon Jean,” all played by, as is typical on Black Jazz releases, by top-notch sidemen including drummer Raymond Pounds, who’s played with everybody from Stevie Wonder to Pharoah Sanders to Bob Dylan, and pianist John Barnes, whose work is very familiar to Motown fans (Supremes, Temptations, Marvin Gaye). Bassist Reggie Jackson, who appeared on the Walter Bishop, Jr. Coral Keys record we previously released, rounds out the quartet. First vinyl reissue of another stellar Black Jazz release, also remastered by Mike Milchner at Sonic Vision and also featuring liner notes by Pat Thomas. And, just like Shawn-Neeq, available on CD, black vinyl, or clear with heavy black splatter vinyl limited to 200 copies and exclusive for our customers!

[Dub Modal]

5 hours ago, barnaba.siegel said:

They're supposed to be remastered - well, I've got the 2005 P-Vine Japan CD and the sound is distorted. I'm wondering how the'll manage with the quality this time.

Interesting - yeah, my Snow Dog edition of Spring Rain is LOUD. Will be interesting if this new remastering services the music a bit better. 

[jazzbo]

Other recent releases in this series by Collector's Choice sound quite nice. Less loud than the few P-Vine I have heard. 

[jlhoots]

Cleveland Eaton: Plenty Good Eaton has also been released recently.