marcello Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 Sadly, I think he might be more famous for his record collection. Chuck, I knew there was something really wrong when I saw his collection go down to just a few LPs. Quote
GA Russell Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 By the way, looking at the first clip that started this thread, I think that's George Carlin when he was still cleanshaven along with Steve Rossi introducing the band. Anybody want to disagree? Quote
JSngry Posted April 1, 2008 Author Report Posted April 1, 2008 The YouTube comments say George Carlin & Buddy Greco. "Away We Go" was a CBS summer replacement show for The Jackie Gleason Show. Buddy's was the house band, and as I understand it, they were a prominent part of the show, not just backing guests, but also having their own features & production numbers, such as this one, with the June Taylor Dancers. A lot of material on The New One (my favorite BR PJ) seems to have been written for use on this show. I have no recollection of this show, but then again I was 11 in the summer of 1967 and might not have been paying attention. Quote
Larry Kart Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 I'm knocked out by the sound of Buddy's drums on these clips and obviously that could be just because he was miked nicely. But I suspect it may be more than that, so does any drum maven know whether or how much Rich switched brands over the years and what he was playing at this time (the Pacific Jazz albums era). In the back of my mind, I remember Rich print ads for Ludwig in Down Beat. Quote
GA Russell Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 The YouTube comments say George Carlin & Buddy Greco. ...A lot of material on The New One (my favorite BR PJ) seems to have been written for use on this show. I have no recollection of this show, but then again I was 11 in the summer of 1967 and might not have been paying attention. Thanks Jim. I never saw the show either. I was out of the country. I remember well when The New One came out in early '68. I was very fond of it at the time, but haven't heard it since. In the mid-80s I saw Buddy Greco at an industry private party in Las Vegas. He was great! I guess you could call him my guilty pleasure! Quote
JSngry Posted April 1, 2008 Author Report Posted April 1, 2008 Right, but I think that at the time of the PJ era he was on Slingerland. Quote
rostasi Posted April 1, 2008 Report Posted April 1, 2008 (edited) I've known some folks who swore by Rich's Rogers set, but my one and only mother-of-pearl Slingerland set purchase was partially influenced by his presence and style on the Slingerland. It seemed that these were the "Apple" of drumsets in those days - a little more expensive, but amazing ability to withstand nearly anything thrown, sometimes literally, at them. Edited April 1, 2008 by rostasi Quote
catesta Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 That one was just weird. This one is kinda scary... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO9180bL_c8...feature=related Wow, I've never seen Buddy clowning before. WTF? Yeah...but his drumming is kind of......INCREDIBLE! You've got that right....., wow! Quote
JSngry Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Posted April 2, 2008 WHOA! Here's a tune from The New One ("Machine") only from about a year later: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJA1Ptr4s5Y&NR=1 You got yer Don Menza on yer tenor solo, ya' do. The video & audio are out of sync, but hey - pretty cool chart, and one helluva band. Quote
JSngry Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Posted April 2, 2008 WHOA WHOA! Buddy carries a B-3 to Oslo with the big band. DAMN! Quote
AllenLowe Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 I will tell you that I never liked Buddy Rich's big band drumming - brittle, busy, show-offy, didn't swing - but I saw him on a clip one day in the 1970s, maybe, with one of those Playboy All Star bands, 7-8 pieces including Dizzy and wow! I finally got his talent - when he was playing for the band and not himself he was brilliant, very Dave Tough-ish and musical - just my opinion, however (and that of other informed and concerned Americans) Quote
JSngry Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Posted April 2, 2008 WHOA WHOA! Buddy carries a B-3 to Oslo with the big band. DAMN! Uh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JbvAeDm000 Quote
JSngry Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Posted April 2, 2008 I will tell you that I never liked Buddy Rich's big band drumming - brittle, busy, show-offy, didn't swing - Well yeah, no doubt, but that's kinda both exactly the point and beside it... My long (and probably forevermore) ambiguity about the guy is based exactly on that - what he was vs what he wasn't. Either way, there's no doubt, and molto begrudginato Love Points for that... Quote
Larry Kart Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 This one is just sick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rm-A6bGhiE...feature=related One of the tenor soloists here is Pat LaBarbera; anoyne know who the other guy is? Loved the video with the B-3. Looks like I've got a lot of PJ Rich albums to catch up on. Quote
JSngry Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Posted April 2, 2008 This one is just sick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rm-A6bGhiE...feature=related One of the tenor soloists here is Pat LaBarbera; anoyne know who the other guy is? Loved the video with the B-3. Looks like I've got a lot of PJ Rich albums to catch up on. Per page 5 of the comments: Personnel: Brian Grivna, Jimmy Mosher (alto sax), Pat LaBarbera, Don Englert (tenor), Joe Calo (bari.). Bruce Paulson, Tony DiMaggio, (trombone), John Leys (bass trombone). Jeff Stout, Lin Biviano, Wayne Naus, John DeFlon (trumpet). Paul Kondziela (bass). Bob Dogan (piano)..and uh..Buddy Rich (drums). Quote
Alexander Hawkins Posted April 2, 2008 Report Posted April 2, 2008 Really enjoying these clips...sort of 'sweating brow syndrome jazz', but... He's really 'musical' on that Oslo clip though IMHO, especially behind that organ solo. p.s. who's playing? He's a piano player, right? Very cool arranging at the 3'35" mark as well!!! Quote
JSngry Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Posted April 2, 2008 Really enjoying these clips...sort of 'sweating brow syndrome jazz', but... He's really 'musical' on that Oslo clip though IMHO, especially behind that organ solo. p.s. who's playing? He's a piano player, right? Dave McRae organ. One of the comments says that he also played with Matching Mole, and how's that for contrasting gigs? Re: the "sweating brow syndrome jazz" thing, yeah, I heard that, and after time goes by and you hear/play/get propagandized by enough of tht stuff, it becomes less and less attractive. But in retrospect, it's hard for me to just flat-out deny the validity of it, at least as practiced here. I saw the Rich band once, somewhere in 1975-74, and the impression that they left and that still lingers is that these guys came to play hard. Not flashy or dramatic or anything, just hard. Now, me myself, hey, at least some lightness is essential, but all I'm saying is that Rich & Co. always (in those days anyway) seemed to play what/how they did out of principle, and out of belief, so far be it from me to deny that they should have. Quote
JSngry Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Posted April 3, 2008 Looks like I've got a lot of PJ Rich albums to catch up on. Gotta ask, Larry, how did this stuff strike you in "real time", late 60s/early 70s? I mean, in the midst of Trane, Miles, AACM, and all the other "forward" music being made (and all the "stationary" music still being made quite well), wasn't a Buddy Rich big band sort of..."besides the point" for somebody with your vantage point? And I mean no disrespect by that, because even though this was the time of my "awakening" to jazz, and all that/this plus more was already out there and it really did seem like "all the same music" then (and GOD what a beautifully messy crowded pool it was!), it didn't take too long to prioritize personally, and yeah, I too am being a little pleasantly surprised at how, now that the stadium is mostly deserted and the standings pretty much finalized, some of this stuff is still hanging on to play a few more innings before retiring to the clubhouse to empty out the locker and go home, even though its hard to say why. Quote
catesta Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 WHOA! Here's a tune from The New One ("Machine") only from about a year later: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJA1Ptr4s5Y&NR=1 You got yer Don Menza on yer tenor solo, ya' do. The video & audio are out of sync, but hey - pretty cool chart, and one helluva band. Pretty fuckin' cool. I like the last comment left about this clip. "Buddy Rich is great! Maybe I'll see him next time he's in town." Quote
Alexander Hawkins Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Really enjoying these clips...sort of 'sweating brow syndrome jazz', but... He's really 'musical' on that Oslo clip though IMHO, especially behind that organ solo. p.s. who's playing? He's a piano player, right? Dave McRae organ. One of the comments says that he also played with Matching Mole, and how's that for contrasting gigs? Re: the "sweating brow syndrome jazz" thing, yeah, I heard that, and after time goes by and you hear/play/get propagandized by enough of tht stuff, it becomes less and less attractive. But in retrospect, it's hard for me to just flat-out deny the validity of it, at least as practiced here. I saw the Rich band once, somewhere in 1975-74, and the impression that they left and that still lingers is that these guys came to play hard. Not flashy or dramatic or anything, just hard. Now, me myself, hey, at least some lightness is essential, but all I'm saying is that Rich & Co. always (in those days anyway) seemed to play what/how they did out of principle, and out of belief, so far be it from me to deny that they should have. Yeah - and I can imagine that they'd have been really quite something live! Quote
JSngry Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Posted April 3, 2008 Check it out - their opener was some flagwaver based on the Rocky & Bullwinkle theme. I mean, this thing was way up. Well, Pat LaBarbera's mike had a short in it, so it sounded like he was double-tonguing these ridiculously fast 16th note lines. It was only into his 3rd or 4th chorus that I began to realize, that, no, no matter how fast the shit was, and no, no matter how hard Buddy was pushing everything, that nobody could do that. But it's a credit to the intensity of all concerned that it took me that long for reality to set in. Quote
Larry Kart Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 Looks like I've got a lot of PJ Rich albums to catch up on. Gotta ask, Larry, how did this stuff strike you in "real time", late 60s/early 70s? I mean, in the midst of Trane, Miles, AACM, and all the other "forward" music being made (and all the "stationary" music still being made quite well), wasn't a Buddy Rich big band sort of..."besides the point" for somebody with your vantage point? And I mean no disrespect by that, because even though this was the time of my "awakening" to jazz, and all that/this plus more was already out there and it really did seem like "all the same music" then (and GOD what a beautifully messy crowded pool it was!), it didn't take too long to prioritize personally, and yeah, I too am being a little pleasantly surprised at how, now that the stadium is mostly deserted and the standings pretty much finalized, some of this stuff is still hanging on to play a few more innings before retiring to the clubhouse to empty out the locker and go home, even though its hard to say why. Truthfully, I heard almost none of this stuff at the time for just the reason you give -- "in the midst of Trane, Miles, AACM, and all the other "forward" music being made (and all the "stationary" music still being made quite well), wasn't a Buddy Rich big band sort of..."besides the point" for somebody with your vantage point?" I wish that it weren't so, but we all have our limitations, and/or we pay for not paying enough attention. I'm sure that if I had heard the band much at the time, I would be reacting to it as I am now. I wasn't the only one, though. I recall a vintage Litweiler review of something or other in which in passing he heaps disdain on the Woody Herman Phillips-era band, referring to it (I'm dimly paraphrasing here) as a virtual ghost band that was blatantly defacing First and Second Herd material. I'd say this was a version of the attitude (very common in some elistist circles -- see Max Harrison in particular) that found the '50s/'60s Basie band to be a vulgar betrayal of the '30s band, with the added edge that the Herman Phillips band was, or might be thought of as, playing to audiences made up mostly of older, nostalgic-minded white people. It was a hard time to remain sane, at times; there was so much "sheep versus goats" stuff in the air. BTW, I mention Litweiler's jibe not because he was prone to making such remarks (he wasn't at all) but because I remember that one and it startled me at the time. Geez, when I was young and snotty I said something snotty in print in passing (in passing is often how those things happen) about Gigi Gryce's alto playing that I expect I'll have to account for at the edge of the River Styx. The thought that Gryce himself may have read it makes me cringe. Quote
Joe G Posted April 3, 2008 Report Posted April 3, 2008 WHOA WHOA! Buddy carries a B-3 to Oslo with the big band. DAMN! Uh... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JbvAeDm000 Quote
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