Sonny and Max Graz 1966

[Mark Stryker]

Hey gang:

Some questions about the Sonny Rollins-Max Roach-Jymie Merritt trio bootleg from Graz in 1966. A pitch problem was brought up on an old thread I recall -- on some issues the speed was running fast and, in fact, when I downloaded a version of "Lover" from Sonny's website tonight, the speed was ridiculous. Sonny sounded like he was playing an alto or a stritch or something (total time: 15:56). Disappointing (though Sonny is obviously playing his ass off). Anyone know of another legitimate source for a pitch corrected version? Or is there a way to slow down this one now that I have it or what software might allow me to do so?

Thanks

Edited March 28, 2008 by Mark Stryker

[Mark Stryker]

To follow up on my previous post:

After some emailing with Sonny's webmaster, he has replaced the version of "Lover" on his site with another version that is some three-minutes slower. Sonny again sounds like he's playing tenor, though the pitch correction still sounds off, running perhaps a full step sharp, but I can't tell for sure without a piano or my alto handy. Also, the last few minutes are especially inconsistent with a few seconds here and there where it rapidly speeds up.

For all that, however, Sonny and Max just destroy. It's worth the $2.

Edited March 28, 2008 by Mark Stryker

[erhodes]

Some questions about the Sonny Rollins-Max Roach-Jymie Merritt trio bootleg from Graz in 1966. A pitch problem was brought up on an old thread I recall -- on some issues the speed was running fast and, in fact, when I downloaded a version of "Lover" from Sonny's website tonight, the speed was ridiculous. Sonny sounded like he was playing an alto or a stritch or something (total time: 15:56). Disappointing (though Sonny is obviously playing his ass off). Anyone know of another legitimate source for a pitch corrected version? Or is there a way to slow down this one now that I have it or what software might allow me to do so?

I had a cassette dub of the November 12, 1966 Graz concert. Someone sent it to me in a tree or something. I made a digital copy and passed it on. "Lover" is in the key of E on this tape, a full tone slower than the version on Unique Jazz UJ 29, which may have been the source of the file on Sonny's website. I can't vouch for the absolute accuracy of this source except to say that "Nommo" by the Roach quintet, which was also part of the concert, is in the same key as the version on "Drums Unlimited", though it's played considerably faster.

I may have been part of the old thread, though I think I brought it up on the Hard Bop list. That concert is spread between UJ 29 and Jazz Connoisseur JC 108 and both lp's play the trio pieces very fast, so that Sonny sounds like he's playing the world's fastest alto. I had a musician friend...a tenor player...come over to my house and help me with the speed correction. I had been told that Sonny changed up on keys all the time and it would be difficult to use records as a reference. My friend thought that Sonny was pretty consistent with keys...but we spent 3 or 4 hours digitally manipulating the pitch of the lp's until he thought it sounded "right". Turns out we wound up in E flat, a half tone slower than the tape I subsequently got.

At that, "Lover" in E sounds much higher than the work on the Paris or Copenhagen dubs I have from that tour and Sonny's speed on the tenor is just this side of believable. I can't account for that...but the cassette is definitely in E.

[Gheorghe]

I would have been to small to attend that concert, I just had entered my first year of primary school, but one of my earlier mentors, the late great Fritz Novotny from Reform Art Unit ("RAU") was there and told me, that especially the first part of the Concert (the Max Roach Quintet) was a dissaster due to unprofessional behaviour by Freddie Hubbard and James Spaulding . 

Anyway you hear Freddie cursing the audience after some high notes from his solo cadenza on trumpet. 

The Sonny Rollins part was wonderful, especially such an all star occasion with Roach and Merritt. I only had the LP which he spinned for me and I taped it on cassette. 

Now, reading the Eytan Levy Rollins bio, there are even some pages about that event and it´s described, what a desaster it was with Hubbard stone drunk and later arrested. I don´t understand why he was arrested only for saying some mutha.....words on stage, he hadn´t hurt nobody physically . And as much as I heard from the record, his playing still was strong. It was not like those "Bird at the Loverman Session" kind of music......

About speed on records: Anyway, having perfect pitch, such things are annyoing for me, but when I was still a kid and didn´t know about recorded at to high speed if I heard somethin in an "unusual key" I took it mot a mot and started to play it myself in that key. Because I didn´t read music and played things how I heard ´ em , and if the blues meant in Bb appears as B natural on the record, I would have thought okay, that´s what it is meant to be, so I must play it also in that unusual key. At least, that less of knowledge lead me to be more open for playing the same tune in different keys.... 

[bertrand]

Sonny is selling downloads on his website????

What rock have I been hiding under?

[mjzee]

3 hours ago, bertrand said:

Sonny is selling downloads on his website????

What rock have I been hiding under?

Not anymore.  He did for awhile around 2005, in a "Beat The Boots" attempt.  I downloaded 3 1/2 hrs of a January 1965 date at iirc Ronnie Scott's with Stan Tracey, Rick Laird and Ronnie Stevenson, and the "Lover" from Graz 11/12/66 with Jymie Merritt and Max.