everything SAM RIVERS - whacha got?? - and talk about 'em all!

[Hardbopjazz]

yes. I did pick up a copy.

[Dub Modal]

I have the Mosaic Select along with BNs FSS, Contours, A New Conception, and Dimensions & Extensions. Haven't played D&E in a while but it was my least favorite of these BN albums. My favorite of that group is A New Conception, as I think that quartet setting allows him to showcase a bit more than other albums in this era, and it's got Hal Galper on it.

The Select is good but I can make it about one disc at a time as the tracks start running together a bit. 

My favorite album that I have by him is his quartet's Lazuli. That band is very good. It's very much inside for him compared to other dates but it doesn't drag and they play some great compositions. 

I frequently stream Streams and some of his other trio dates that tend to be further out though. An all around great artist. 

[clifford_thornton]

I don't have enough Rivers from the CD era, to be honest. I think I have everything from the LP era (except that weird solo educational record). Sadly never saw him live.

[Jason Bivins]

Looking forward to that next volume, Cliff. I'm a 70s Rivers junkie myself (not at the expense of the 60s, of course), went on a major vinyl binge a couple decades back. 

[clifford_thornton]

18 minutes ago, Jason Bivins said:

Looking forward to that next volume, Cliff. I'm a 70s Rivers junkie myself (not at the expense of the 60s, of course), went on a major vinyl binge a couple decades back. 

Same.

Yeah, the piano section on the Keystone set will floor you.

[Rabshakeh]

On 11/05/2020 at 6:09 PM, clifford_thornton said:

It's really good, as is the following volume, Zenith, with Charli Persip, Barry Altschul, Dave Holland... sorta double trio action, I guess, or along the lines of a Schlippenbach outfit I saw, 2x3=5. 

Wrote the notes for the next volume of Rivers' archival material on NoBusiness CD, a Keystone Korner set from '78 with Holland and Altschul that's very heavy.

A new one came out very recently: Ricochet, with a trio with Barry Altschul and Dave Holland performing in January 1978⁰.

I'd happily buy all three, particularly that second one with Charlie Persip and Joe Daley. Sadly they seem to be CD only for some reason. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Rabshakeh

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, Ricochet is the one I wrote text for. It's excellent in my opinion. I believe that they only have rights to do CDs -- no digital.

[mjazzg]

That's a shame, I was assuming downloads were available like other No Business releases.  Space constraints dictate dl over Cd increasingly.

[Rabshakeh]

It turns out they are available on Spotify and Apple Music, but under slightly tweaked names that make it difficult to spot them at first.

It's not quite the same as owning them, but it is better than buying a CD player, I suppose.

31 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

yeah, Ricochet is the one I wrote text for. It's excellent in my opinion. I believe that they only have rights to do CDs -- no digital.

Also sad to be missing out on the text!

[clifford_thornton]

Weird!

[colinmce]

it’s unfortunate that these NB CDs are so difficult to obtain in the US. Squidco and DG get them occasionally but they sell out immediately and are not often restocked. I was very lucky to grab all 3 a couple months ago, still need to work all the way through them. 

As for the question of later Rivers, I find a lot to love in Configuration, a ‘96 session w/ Akchoté, Thollot, Paul Rogers, and Tony Hymas that veers between some very beautiful straight ahead playing and freer material. Also love Portrait and the All-Stars discs. One more shoutout for Celebration, a very deep effort from his working trio. 

[T.D.]

51 minutes ago, colinmce said:

it’s unfortunate that these NB CDs are so difficult to obtain in the US. Squidco and DG get them occasionally but they sell out immediately and are not often restocked. I was very lucky to grab all 3 a couple months ago, still need to work all the way through them. 

As for the question of later Rivers, I find a lot to love in Configuration, a ‘96 session w/ Akchoté, Thollot, Paul Rogers, and Tony Hymas that veers between some very beautiful straight ahead playing and freer material. Also love Portrait and the All-Stars discs. One more shoutout for Celebration, a very deep effort from his working trio. 

I've bought all 3 of the Rivers series and regularly buy from NB. I've always purchased via eBay (seller name poligrafovicius), as the "Buy it Now" price with free shipping to US seems a bit lower than the price + S/H (converted from Euro to USD) on the NB website. Easy enough to obtain, but shipping is a little slow and I only get tracking #s for larger purchases. It is necessary to watch the NB website (or Facebook) in order to "carpe diem" new releases before they sell out, but that seems true of many free jazz labels these days.

[colinmce]

NB direct on ebay is definitely a great option but everything international is a bit iffier these days unfortunately. 

[T.D.]

I deferred buying Ricochet for that reason, but delivery worked out well. Valerij said "allow up to 10 weeks", but I got it in less than a month (shipped 7/9, arr. around 8/6). And my recent order from Dark Tree in France (Tapscott Ancestral Echoes) also arrived sooner than expected, I think it only took 2 weeks or less.

[romualdo]

I've been buying directly from NB for a few years now (email contact the owner with request and get a paypal invoice) - usually do one order per year (vinyl & CD) - shipping costs from Lithuania to Australia are very reasonable

2 hours ago, T.D. said:

And my recent order from Dark Tree in France (Tapscott Ancestral Echoes) also arrived sooner than expected, I think it only took 2 weeks or less.

Same here, Tapscott CD got to Australia in 2-3 weeks

[Clunky]

Another thumbs up for the three volumes on NB. All excellent, performance and sound. I order from NB directly too. Highly reliable with orders getting here in about 4 weeks. I'm happy these were on CD as I'm not convinced by NB's vinyl pressings.

[slide_advantage_redoux]

My first exposure to Sam Rivers was via Dave Holland's ECM Conference of the Birds. Since then I picked up several of his leader dates, including three on Blue Note.

And I have the CBS release Miles in Tokyo. Terrific. It is only too bad that he didn't stay on the band longer. I had read that Miles didn't dig him, explaining his brief tenure.

[Rabshakeh]

I'm reading Jazz in the 70s by Bill Shoemaker at the moment. It has a good chapter on Rivers.

One thing it brings out is what a good interview he is. 

Does anyone know of a good place to access his historic interviews or any books that treat Rivers in depth? 

[sidewinder]

Doesn’t Val Wilmer’s ‘As Serious As Your Life’ include a section on Sam and Bea Rivers?

[Rabshakeh]

1 minute ago, sidewinder said:

Doesn’t Val Wilmer’s ‘As Serious As Your Life’ include a section on Sam and Bea Rivers?

It does have a bit, but it is through Wilmer's lense. Much as I love that book, he comes across much like all the other subjects.

[clifford_thornton]

not super in depth but this is a start:

 

[Rabshakeh]

Thanks!

[Randal]

I've long wanted the Mosaic sets of Rivers and especially Andrew Hill, but never had the coin.  I've settled for acquiring individual blue notes.  I think I have everything the two played on together.

Some great Rivers stuff on YT.

[Rabshakeh]

45 minutes ago, Randal said:

I've long wanted the Mosaic sets of Rivers and especially Andrew Hill, but never had the coin.  I've settled for acquiring individual blue notes.  I think I have everything the two played on together.

Some great Rivers stuff on YT.

I just buy Rivers vinyl when I see it. Luckily for my family, it's in limited supply in the UK. 

[Rabshakeh]

I'm listening to Contours right now. 

I am a non musician, but does anyone know of any analysis, ideally available online, that can explain in very summary terms what Rivers is doing musically in his solos here, and why it sounds so different to Ornette, Eric Dolphy or Coltrane? 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Rabshakeh