Joshua Redman

[Christiern]

Haven't heard Redman in quite a while. Good to hear that he has improved--there was lots of room for that when I last heard him.

[JSngry]

"Maybe" is about as far as I'm willing to go.

How about 1955? Assuming that there were gigs to be had in 1955, of course.

Point not being that Monk wouldn't have hired Redman in 1957, or even 1967, that's a no-brainer, but that in 1957 (or 1967), the line to "the top" was longer, and said top was a higher place than it is now.

So even if Redman is in fact "a force" in today jazz world. so what? That's not too terribly much different than the St. Louis Browns making the World Series in 1944.

[clifford_thornton]

Would Monk hire the Redman kid in 1957?

Would Monk have hired Charlie Rouse in 1957?

Not if Johnny Griffin were available; otherwise, quite possibly.

I was looking at the liners to Just Wailin' (Rouse, Mann, Waldron, etc., 1958 I think) today and it was mentioned that Rouse had already played with Monk at that point, though I believe it would've only been a few gigs.

Can't add much to the discussion as, I've heard so little of Josh Redman's work I can't even remember what he sounded like. His dad sure was a motherfucker, though.

[jlhoots]

I'll take McCaslin over most tenors today. US tenors, that is.

I suspect edc doesn't like him either.

[marcello]

I'll take McCaslin over most tenors today. US tenors, that is.

I suspect edc doesn't like him either.

Doesn't matter.

I respect Clem's opinion, and even though I don't agree all of the time with him ( that would be a bore), and sometimes don't understand him, (maybe I still have a lot to learn), and sometimes dont' care to understand him, he's still a open cat in many ways. Like I hope I am.

My favorite tenor saxophonist as a soloists, is the incredible Tommy Smith.

Ask Joe Lovano.

Clem may dig this one : Alone at Last for the combination of Poetry and Tenor. A strange brew.

I personally woudn't go out of my way to hear a band for Josh Redman alone.

[AllenLowe]

1) Joe Romano was a fine tenor player. I have him on some record, can't remember what, might even be a Xanadu "live" thing - is he still around? I also seem to recall a bootleg CD from the 1960s where he goes against Art Pepper

2) Josh Redman may not be the most interesting player, but he sure dresses nice, and he has the advertisements to prove it -

3) He gave us Brad Mehldau? Surely Mehldau, who can play, has become one of the most repulsive jazz performers in the universe - narcissistic, yech, pseudo intellectual - for this alone we should put Redman in the stockade -

Edited March 23, 2008 by AllenLowe

[marcello]

1) Joe Romano was a fine tenor player. I have him on some record, can't remember what, might even be a Xanadu "live" thing - is he still around? I also seem to recall a bootleg CD from the 1960s where he goes against Art Pepper

Joe Romano is still with us, he's about 78, and lives in Port Townsend, WA. The record that he made with Sam Noto is great.

[Guest Bill Barton]

1) Joe Romano was a fine tenor player. I have him on some record, can't remember what, might even be a Xanadu "live" thing - is he still around? I also seem to recall a bootleg CD from the 1960s where he goes against Art Pepper

Joe Romano is still with us, he's about 78, and lives in Port Townsend, WA. The record that he made with Sam Noto is great.

Hey, Tom! I never knew he lived in Port Townsend... That record with Sam Noto is indeed a good one.

[clifford_thornton]

3) He gave us Brad Mehldau? Surely Mehldau, who can play, has become one of the most repulsive jazz performers in the universe - narcissistic, yech, pseudo intellectual - for this alone we should put Redman in the stockade -

Yeah, FUCK Mehldau.

Mehldau --> The Bad Plus --> ???

[WorldB3]

3) He gave us Brad Mehldau? Surely Mehldau, who can play, has become one of the most repulsive jazz performers in the universe - narcissistic, yech, pseudo intellectual - for this alone we should put Redman in the stockade -

Yeah, FUCK Mehldau.

Mehldau --> The Bad Plus --> ???

Come on those trio's don't sound anything alike, not even in the same ball park.

I never got the Mehldau bashing.

He has chops, touch, writes good tunes, loves and knows his Monk inside and out as well as the american standard songbook.

At the seven concerts I have seen him I have seen middld ages men saying damn into there whisky during a version of Monks Dream, 20 something tattooed hipsters with goosebumps during Everything In It Right Place and my wife cry during a Cole Porter ballad.

If thats narcism and pseudo intellectualism I want more. I wish the world was full of people talented as smart as Brad Mehldau. God forbid someone have some cross over appeal to the rock crowd but actually do it the right way with out being a gimmick (not saying the BadPlus are but they are closer to it than Mehldau). I guess I should hate him becuase he sell some records and appears on jazz magazine covers. While you guys are hating I will be enjoying the new album that comes out this week and I will be talking about it with my friends who only dabble in Jazz because they are on board with him. A 20 minute version of All The You Are or Black Holed Sun by Soundgarden I don't care. BRING IT ON.

Edited March 24, 2008 by WorldB3

[clifford_thornton]

They may not sound alike, but they're both into the hipster-commercial bag too much for my mirror, that is for sure.

And Ethan Iverson's attitude is a fair shake better, to put it mildly...

[Larry Kart]

related QUESTION: besides Redman (not Reggie Noble, alas), ** how many BLACK Americans ** are or have ever been on Nonesuch?

Does Don Byron count? I can see where he might not.

[Van Basten II]

For a guy that should be a cab driver or janitor instead of being a musician, he sure does generates a lot of posts, we're now in page 4.

And this coming from the same guys who complain that he gets too much publicity

[Big Al]

So Josh Redman hasn't contributed anything earth-shattering. So what? One man's alleged "settling" is another man's cup o' tea. Not all of us feel the need to be as deep (in more ways than one) in our listening habits.

But then, Redman's Wish put me to sleep, despite the presence of Billy Higgins. Oh well.

[clifford_thornton]

truly, i'd rather listen to EVERY Benny Goodman (even the '60s stuff) record than ANY Don Byron, too bad, he had the look at least & while Lester Bowie is of course irreplaceable... it woulda been useful to the culture if someone coulda at least played the part.

Curious connection, I hadn't thought of that.

Think I need to spend more time with Phineas Newborn records. He was someone I always "meant" to check into more deeply...

Screaming Life of 30 Seconds Over Tokyo,

CT

[Jim Alfredson]

You guys must be fun at parties.

[AllenLowe]

wait 'till I start stripping to the latest Mehldau solo record

[JSngry]

...Don Byron, too bad, he had the look at least & while Lester Bowie is of course irreplaceable... it woulda been useful to the culture if someone coulda at least played the part.

In a world with a little more axis and polar pull, that could have easily been James Carter...

[WorldB3]

World Bozo 3 are you wearing a clown wig now or engaged in deep deadpan satire? got-damn! Q: how many Phineas Newborn records have you listened to that yr so impressed with this blowsy jackass Brad Mehldau?

related QUESTION: besides Redman (not Reggie Noble, alas), ** how many BLACK Americans ** are or have ever been on Nonesuch?

they do a bit better on the African front, Toumani Diabate worst day beats fucking Mehldau & Redman's LIFE.

Josh Redman: oooh but he speak so well!

Brad Mehldau: if you're white you're alright.

***

the closer anyone is to the great Sal Nistico the better... the closer to Josh Redman... fuck 'em all (however many they be.)

AGAIN-- in 110+ years of recorded music, ya'll settle for... that?

***

Frank Butler >>>> Brian Blades

as if there's any question!

oh, but if goddamn NPR says it's alright...

signed,

elder don clementine

(a desilu production)

I own four Phineas Newborn records and I think he is incredible. I don't expect anybody else to sound like him, he was unique and a force of nature.

Yes Toumani Diabate is amazing and more people should own his records also. I only own three and I should own more.

I still don't understand why I can't like Mehldau or how if people buy his records and then move on to Monk, Evans or Shorter how that is a bad thing. I am not insulting anybody (nor implying I know more than anybody else) on this board just defending that I should like who I like. It's not like he is Chris Botti, John Tesh or Kenny G or something.

[7/4]

I still don't understand why I can't like Mehldau or how if people buy his records and then move on to Monk, Evans or Shorter how that is a bad thing. I am not insulting anybody (nor implying I know more than anybody else) on this board just defending that I should like who I like. It's not like he is Chris Botti, John Tesh or Kenny G or something.

But he can be...if you want him to.

.

[marcello]

I still don't understand why I can't like Mehldau or how if people buy his records and then move on to Monk, Evans or Shorter how that is a bad thing. I am not insulting anybody (nor implying I know more than anybody else) on this board just defending that I should like who I like. It's not like he is Chris Botti, John Tesh or Kenny G or something.

But he can be...if you want him to.

.

No one said you can't like who you want to(what is it with these boards and they way people interpet everything as a personal insult?), but there are some good observations here regarding Mehldau.

[AllenLowe]

Mehldau can play - hell, I remember when he was, what, 16 or 17, used to come to the Hartford jam sessions in diapers - and if Lee Konitz likes him he can't be all bad - but not too long ago I heard him play solo on some cable channel, and it was one of the most repulsive jazz performances I have ever seen - shallow, narcissistic, self absorbed, boring, offensive, annoying, cloying, silly, boring, stupid, redundant, megalomanical, repetititve, dumb, masochistic, non-symbiotic, parasitic, self-referential, and inhumane.

thanks for reading.

Edited March 24, 2008 by AllenLowe

[7/4]

I still don't understand why I can't like Mehldau or how if people buy his records and then move on to Monk, Evans or Shorter how that is a bad thing. I am not insulting anybody (nor implying I know more than anybody else) on this board just defending that I should like who I like. It's not like he is Chris Botti, John Tesh or Kenny G or something.

But he can be...if you want him to.

.

No one said you can't like who you want to(what is it with these boards and they way people interpet everything as a personal insult?), but there are some good observations here regarding Mehldau.

I think this is getting blown way out of wack, but don't stop because I said anything.

[7/4]

Mehldau can play - hell, I remember when he was, what, 16 or 17, used to come to the Hartford jam sessions in diapers - and if Lee Konitz likes him he can't be all bad - but not too long ago I heard him play solo on some cable channel, and it was one of the most repulsive jazz performances I have ever seen - shallow, narcissistic, self absorbed, boring, offensive, annoying, cloying, silly, boring, stupid, redundant, megalomanical, repetititve, dumb, masochistic, non-symbiotic, parasitic, self-referential, and inhumane.

thanks for reading.

Sounds like Keith Jarrett.

.

[Alexander]

Mehldau can play - hell, I remember when he was, what, 16 or 17, used to come to the Hartford jam sessions in diapers - and if Lee Konitz likes him he can't be all bad - but not too long ago I heard him play solo on some cable channel, and it was one of the most repulsive jazz performances I have ever seen - shallow, narcissistic, self absorbed, boring, offensive, annoying, cloying, silly, boring, stupid, redundant, megalomanical, repetititve, dumb, masochistic, non-symbiotic, parasitic, self-referential, and inhumane.

thanks for reading.

Sounds like Keith Jarrett.

.

Honestly, Mehldau has a LOT in common with Keith (although he has a much better attitude towards the public). I know it's bothered him being compared to Bill Evans, because he has noted that he was much more influenced by Jarrett than by Evans.

To me the most important thing about players like Redman, Garrett, Blade, McBride, Mehldau, Lovano, Yahel, etc. is that they are ALIVE and making music in the present tense. No, they aren't as great as the Great Figures in jazz, but they are "what's happening" in the Jazz Mainstream. The question of whether they deserve it or whether someone else who doesn't get as much recognition should be "what's happening" is moot: This IS "what's happening" and it cannot be ignored. Bitching and moaning that Mehldau is no Monk isn't going to make Monk rise from the grave and start giving concerts again. You can complain that Barak Obama isn't Abraham Lincoln or JFK, but Lincoln and JFK aren't running for president in 2008: Obama is. You either accept it or you don't, but dissing the guy isn't going to make him go away. The same is true of Redman.

Oh, and Clem is still a jerk. I wish I could make HIM go away.